"Susan said, weary before the evening had even begun."

Question

"Susan said, weary before the evening had even begun."

Teachers, please help~

I thought I got the perfect tense problem under control, which it looks like I didn't.

In the above sentence, which is the first, "said" or "had begun"?. And why is the past perfect was used in it?

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Let's assume that a quote precedes this so that we have a complete sentence.

"xxxx," Susan said, weary before the evening had even begun.

Instances of the past perfect in a before-clause abound, in spite of the fact that they contradict the so-called rule that the past perfect always expresses a time before the time expressed by the simple past.

My hypothesis is this. When X happens before Y happens, X happens in the absence of Y. But absence is a negative concept, so something like negative polarity applies. A possible equivalent, therefore, is saying that Y did not happen or was not happening (earlier, before), and then X happened (later, after). The point in time where Y is absent (wasn't happening) precedes X. Since Y's absence was first (although not Y itself), the past perfect tense is used with Y.

My apologies if all of this is really too mind-boggling!

[For those interested in other languages, French in fact places a seemingly unnecessary negation (ne) in such a before-clause. I think this, too, shows that a sort of "absence" factor with negative polarity is in play.]

CJ

Bamtori · Answer

Since Y's absence was first (although not Y itself), the past perfect tense is used with Y.

CalifJim, I think I'm beginning to understand the past perfect tense better with the quote above!

Thank you so much for your teaching!

Davkett · Answer

If you say so, CJ--

CalifJim · Answer

Indeed, I say so. But I'm sure there are a hundred forum members out there who could have expressed it better!

CJ

"Susan said, weary before the evening had even begun."

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions