"of which"

Question

1) The highest ought to be one that treats of ethical ideals, and of which the effect should be straight forward.

2) The highest ought to be one that treats of ethical ideals, the effect of which should be straight foward.

3) The highest ought to be one that treats of ethical ideals, and the effect of which should be straight forward.

Do 1, 2 and 3 express the same idea? And which is the best sentence?

Milky · Accepted Answer

Teleostomi1) The highest ought to be one that treats of ethical ideals, and of which the effect should be straight forward.

2) The highest ought to be one that treats of ethical ideals, the effect of which should be straight foward.

3) The highest ought to be one that treats of ethical ideals, and the effect of which should be straight forward.

Do 1, 2 and 3 express the same idea? And which is the best sentence?

I prefer the second one.

Shouldn't it be "deals with ethical ideals" and not "treats of"?

* straightforward

Cool Breeze · Answer

I agree with Milky. The conjunction and shouldn't be combined with a relative pronoun. Treat of is good English, this quote is from Webster's Dictionary: "to deal with a subject in speech or writing; discourse: a work that treats of the caste system in India."

Cheers
CB

Milky · Answer

Cool BreezeI agree with Milky. The conjunction and shouldn't be combined with a relative pronoun. Treat of is good English, this quote is from Webster's Dictionary: "to deal with a subject in speech or writing; discourse: a work that treats of the caste system in India."

Cheers
CB

"Treat of", used in that way, is quite old-fashioned.

Nona the brit · Answer

I have to agree; I can't say I have ever heard 'treats of' used in that way.

Teleostomi · Answer

The conjunction and shouldn't be combined with a relative pronoun.

Oh this is a new info for me!

In fact, what I quoted was s lecture on literature course at Tokyo University around 1900. This is exactly what he said: "The highest ought to be one that treats of ethical ideals, and of which the effect should be straight forward."

It's a speech, so inserting "and" before a relative pronoun should not be a problem, I think. But it's a good info that it'd better be avoided in written texts.

I'm not certain Hearn is famous to other peoples, but at least in Japan he is famous for his novels based on Japanese legends and folklores.

Thanks, everyone!

Cool Breeze · Answer

I have just expressed my opinion and I certainly don't consider myself the greatest authority on English usage. I am sure there are other opinions. As regards the quotation in your last post, I would like to modify it slightly and say: "The highest ought to be one that treats of ethical ideals and its effect should be straightforward." But again, there must be others who think the sentence is just perfect as it is.

Cheers
CB

Cool Breeze · Answer

Hi Milky

I can see your post through my e-mail client but when I try to view your post in EF, I get the message "The forum you requested does not exist." If I take the normal route to the thread, I can't see your last post there, but I do get incessant info about data being transferred from 'thechatpage.com'. I hope this post will get through.

Anyway, I should think all your examples are good English and there's nothing exceptional about them. What isn't usually done is to have both the coordinating conjunction 'and' and a relative pronoun right after a main clause to begin a clause:

He took a trip to Tokyo, and which he had never visited before. (wrong)

However, it is completely all right to have a relative clause follow a relative clause the way it is done in your examples:

He took a trip to Tokyo, which he had never seen and which made a lasting impression on him. (right)

There can of course be a preposition before the relative pronoun, which is the case in many of your examples:

He took a trip to Tokyo, which he had never seen and in which he had been interested all his life.

I may have expressed my thoughts in an obscure way in my previous posts. My apologies for that.

Cheers
CB

Milky · Answer

I agree, but it was "and of which" that was being used in the topic post.

Cool Breeze · Answer

MilkyI agree, but it was "and of which" that was being used in the topic post.

Yes, it was. To me, of is a preposition just like in in one of my examples in my previous post, and the idea of having both a coordinate conjunction (and) and a relative pronoun (which) at the beginning of a clause following a main clause does seem very odd:

He took a trip to Tokyo, and of which the population he didn't know.

Cheers
CB

Milky · Answer

Would these be OK, IYO?

1. "Sir, there is the secret of my eminence, and of which you may avail yourself as you please."

2. "He also chaired the sixth extraordinary session of UNO devoted to energy and the raw materials and of which convening Algeria was one of the countries which militated for."

3. 'She upheld the dignity of the University in a way that was respected by outsiders, and of which we could feel proud.'

"of which"

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