"I have / had never seen a picture like this before"

Question

Hi,I have never seen a picture like this before. I had never seen a picture like this before. Could you please tell me the differences between these two sentences and when to use which? Thank you.Best wishes,PBF

Philip · Accepted Answer

PeaceblinkfriendHi,

I have never seen a picture like this before. Until now.

I had never seen a picture like this before. Until some previously mentioned time in the past.

Could you please tell me the differences between these two sentences and when to use which?

Thank you.

Best wishes,

PBF

Present perfect uses the present as the point of reference; past perfect uses a past action as the point of reference. I haven't seen that film (yet, up to now). I had never seen Clark Gable in a film until last week.

Peaceblinkfriend · Answer

Thank you for replying to my post, Philip.

When people say 'I have never seen this painting before', is it possible that they still have not seen the painting?

Thank you.

Best wishes,

PBF

Nona the brit · Answer

No. In that case they would say 'I have never seen this painting.' Oh - I suppose if they were just about to see the painting they might. If they were standing in the queue for the Mona Lisa or something, but generally speaking, no.

New2grammar · Answer

I have a similar question.

If you are in a circus watching an elephant driving a car and it shocks you, do you say 'I've never seen an elephant driving a car before' or 'I'd never seen an elephant driving a car before'. To me, the word 'before' is always followed by a missing word, 'now' or 'this'. So in my head, the complete sentence is 'I've/d never seen an elephant driving a car before this/now'. I would choose 'had' to indicate 'see' is in the past.

Thanks in advance.

Nona the brit · Answer

I think most people would say 'I've' unless they were talking about a trip to the circus quite some time ago.

Philip · Answer

New2grammar
I have a similar question.

If you are in a circus watching an elephant driving a car and it shocks you, do you say 'I've never seen an elephant driving a car before' or 'I'd never seen an elephant driving a car before'. To me, the word 'before' is always followed by a missing word, 'now' or 'this'. So in my head, the complete sentence is 'I've/d never seen an elephant driving a car before this/now'. I would choose 'had' to indicate 'see' is in the past.

Thanks in advance.

The point of reference is now, the present; so the present tense is needed. If you are having dinner just after the circus, you might use "had", as the event is in the past, even though the very recent past.

New2grammar · Answer

Thank you guys! Just to be sure. If up until now I haven't seen an elephant done such an amazing stunt, I should say it without before, am I right? Before is only needed if you have seen/hear/done it. On second thought, that doesn't seem right. You do say 'Have you shot a gun before?' though up to this point you have not experienced it, right?

Have I confused myself?

LoveCZ · Answer

If you have never seen an elephant done an amazing stunt up till now, the moment. You should say it without before,so you were right.

Here are two examples,

You have never seen a beautiful girl as pretty as the one standing in front now, you say :
I have never seen a beautiful girl like this before. (the reference point is now, and this event starts from when you were born until the reference point - now.)

You have never seen a beautiful girl in reality as pretty as the one drawn on the picture in front, you say:
I have never seen a beautiful girl like this in reality/ I have never seen a beautiful girl like this. (you still have not seen such beautiful girls in real world until this moment, the "current" reference point)

"I have / had never seen a picture like this before"

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