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When, and where, was the first pizza parlor opened in the U.S.? -- Tony Cooper aka: (Email Removed) Provider of Jots, Tittles, and Oy!s

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]When, and where, was the first pizza parlor opened in the U.S.?[/nq]
Whatever you think the answer is, Coop, is wrong. There's a problem with the question, for one thing. What in Freck's name is a "pizza parlor"? Yes, I've heard the term, but it is not native to New York town, which has "pizzerias".

New Haven, Conn., likes to say that it introduced the US to pizza as well as to hamburgers, but this is dead wrong, and only the most gullible people would believe either assertion.

But "pizza parlor"? I don't know from pizza parlors. They probably have ice cream chairs.

Usenet · Answer

(20 Jul 2003) in news:(Email Removed) / alt.usage.english:
[nq:1]When, and where, was the first pizza parlor opened in the U.S.?[/nq]
1905, 53 1/2 Spring Street, New York City, by Gennaro Lombardi

-- Martin Ambuhl Returning soon to the Fourth Largest City in America

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1] (20 Jul 2003) in news:(Email Removed) / alt.usage.english:[/nq]
[nq:2]When, and where, was the first pizza parlor opened in the U.S.?[/nq]
[nq:1]1905, 53 1/2 Spring Street, New York City, by Gennaro Lombardi[/nq]
Several sources agree this is the address and the owner, but the date ranges from 1885 to 1905. Boyd's column claims the opening to be in 1885, and that the place was sold 10 years later (1905) for $200. He doesn't give the owner's name.

It seems to be possible that an unknown person opened the place in 1885, and Gennaro got the credit for being first when he bought it in 1905. Perhaps the first Press Agent opened shop in 1905 at 55 Spring Street and acquired Gennaro as a customer.

-- Tony Cooper aka: (Email Removed) Provider of Jots, Tittles, and Oy!s

Usenet · Answer

In article (Email Removed), R says...
[nq:1]But "pizza parlor"? I don't know from pizza parlors. They probably have ice cream chairs.[/nq]
That may conjure up a bizarre image for many, but I think I know the chairs you mean (my mother worked in a Currie's ice cream parlor when I was in my first decade)...they're the ones with circular seats and backs of metal tubing painted white in the form of a pair of concentric hearts..

Pizza parlors have out-of-tune pianos and pitchers of beer...the combination brought out a side of my cousin Ed I hadn't previously been aware of..r

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Several sources agree this is the address and the owner, but the date ranges from 1885 to 1905. Boyd's column claims the opening to be in 1885, and that the place was sold 10 years later (1905) for $200. He doesn't give the owner's name.[/nq]
Opened in 1885...sold 10 years later...in 1905. For $200.

At least one of those numbers has to be a typo, I think.

Maria Conlon Picky, picky.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]His answer is the first US pizza parlor opened in 1885 at 53 1/2 Spring Street in New York City. ... may be using a more modern term in "pizzeria" and be dead wrong in challenging him on the 1885 usage.[/nq]
I suspect that the first place to offer pizza on a commercial basis in the US called itself a "pizzeria" and was probably so called by most of its customers.
[nq:1]Unanswered is the first reported usage of "pizzeria" as the term to describe a place that sells pizza and if "pizza parlor" pre-dated "pizzeria" as the term.[/nq]
Of course it didn't. "Pizzeria" was the term used in those Italian ethnic communities that were pizza-eating. They introduced pizza to the 'Mairicans (and it wasn't their kindred in Italy during World War II who did so, either). I'm sure it can easily be verified that New York city was full of "pizzerias", so called by the citizenry (and not pizzerie, mind ye), by the 1920s, and not just in immigrant or ethnic neighborhoods.

Larger point here, Coop: "Pizzeria" and "pizza parlor" suggest different meanings. "Pizzeria" seems to be unaffectedly used mainly in New York city, where it is the standard term (other than the more informal "pizza place") for the traditional sort of small unpretentious place where pizza is sold by the slice and by the 'pie'.

I'm sure you've seen such places, provided you've seen more of New York than Central Park South and upper Fifth Avenue, though some of your previous statements make me doubtful. You have to be careful about quality; you can usually judge by the name of the place. Avoid pizzerias with names like "Olympic Pizza", "Athens Pizza", "Zeus Pizza", "Agamemnon Pizza", "Acropolis Pizza", "Dukakis Pizza", "Parthenon Pizza", "Minotaur Pizza", "Famous Original Spiro's Pizza", or any pizzeria that advertises the availability of "gyros" (= BrE "doner kebabs"). Janhattan especially is full of such places, preying upon naive tourists from Florida ("Golly Gee, Mabel, ain't this here pizza as tasty as all get-out!"). These didn't seem to exist till the 'Seventies, which, interestingly enough, is right around the time that the great decline in New York pizza quality began.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]His answer is the first US pizza parlor opened in ... be dead wrong in challenging him on the 1885 usage.[/nq]
[nq:1]I suspect that the first place to offer pizza on a commercial basis in the US called itself a "pizzeria" and was probably so called by most of its customers.[/nq]
If Lombardi sold pizza to the public from 53 1/2 Spring Street, wasn't that a "commercial" venture? What leads you believe that he called it a pizzeria?
[nq:2]Unanswered is the first reported usage of "pizzeria" as the ... pizza and if "pizza parlor" pre-dated "pizzeria" as the term.[/nq]
[nq:1]Of course it didn't. "Pizzeria" was the term used in those Italian ethnic communities that were pizza-eating. They introduced pizza ... called by the citizenry (and not pizzerie, mind ye), by the 1920s, and not just in immigrant or ethnic neighborhoods.[/nq]
What do the 1920s have to do with it? The question is "What was the term used to describe a place selling pizza when pizza was first introduced to the US?"

Could it be that pizza parlor was used before pizzeria was used?

I don't know. I'm just asking.
[nq:1]Larger point here, Coop: "Pizzeria" and "pizza parlor" suggest different meanings. "Pizzeria" seems to be unaffectedly used mainly in New ... place") for the traditional sort of small unpretentious place where pizza is sold by the slice and by the 'pie'.[/nq]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's current usage. No one's debating that. The question posed in this thread is "What was the previous usage, if there was one?"
-- Tony Cooper aka: (Email Removed) Provider of Jots, Tittles, and Oy!s

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2] I suspect that the first place to offer pizza ... and was probably so called by most of its customers.[/nq]
[nq:1]If Lombardi sold pizza to the public from 53 1/2 Spring Street, wasn't that a "commercial" venture?[/nq]
Yes.
[nq:1]What leads you believe that he called it a pizzeria?[/nq]
Because even today places that sell pizza in New York are called "pizzerias", the word pizzeria being borrowed from Italian. This wasn't some post-_Rocky_ civil-rights-movement-inspired neo-anti-assimilationist Italian-Americanism, but a natural feature of the local dialect since way before Time Immemorial. If Lombardi's joint wasn't a "pizzeria", and note that in those days Spring Street ran through a burgeoning Italian immigrant area, when and how did "pizzeria" come to be the standard (formal) New York term for an unpretentious non-restaurant pizza place (for pizzerias, Coop, aren't restaurants, though you can sit down at some of them)?
[nq:2]Of course it didn't. "Pizzeria" was the term used in ... the 1920s, and not just in immigrant or ethnic neighborhoods.[/nq]
[nq:1]What do the 1920s have to do with it? The question is "What was the term used to describe a place selling pizza when pizza was first introduced to the US?"[/nq]
Fine, Coop. When I have a spare moment I'll search the Archives.
[nq:1]Could it be that pizza parlor was used before pizzeria was used? I don't know. I'm just asking.[/nq]
No, there's no way this is possible, Coop. Long before you 'Maircans were eating 'pizza' made with American cheeze, ketchup and Flake-O pie crust, pizza was being enthusiastically eaten in New York town by all and sundry; and before that, pizza was being quietly eaten in many Italian-American communities throughout this great land. In some places, yes, the term "pizza parlor" may have been used from an early period, though it doesn't seem likely to me. But in New York, "pizzeria" was the proper word used from the get-go. Why would Lombardi start out using "pizza parlor" and only later would the more thoroughly Italian-sounding "pizzeria" be used? It doesn't make sense, Coop. In fact, I'm guessing that "pizza parlor" didn't get established till after World War II. Check with Jan Sand; I think he fought on the Neapolitan front.
[nq:2]Larger point here, Coop: "Pizzeria" and "pizza parlor" suggest different ... pizza is sold by the slice and by the 'pie'.[/nq]
[nq:1]Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's current usage. No one's debating that. The question posed in this thread is "What was the previous usage, if there was one?"[/nq]
Okay, it's a legitimate and interesting question, Coop, and it deserves some research.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I suspect that the first place to offer pizza on ... and was probably so called by most of its customers.[/nq]
[nq:1]Just a guess, but I'd expect that the first place to sell commercial pizzas would have begun doing so as a sideline to some other business such as a bakery.[/nq]
It's not impossible, but it doesn't seem likely to me. We don't see any conjoined pizzerias/bakeries in the US today.
[nq:1]If they'd called the place a pizzeria from the beginning, a lot of potential customers wouldn't have had a clue what it was they were selling.[/nq]
Unless, as was the case, their target customer base was members of immigrant communities.

Immigrant and ethnic food places of that sort start out serving immigrant/ethnic communities and are only later discovered by, and adapted to the tastes of, other communities.

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