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English 1b3 Posted 16 years ago
Grammar

Questions on this sentence

"They are not auxiliaries unlike 'need' can be, and this is made clear by the to-infinitive that follows these verbs, and not the bare infinitive that follows auxiliaries."

1) The pronoun 'this' doesn't refer to one word, but the entire predicate. I assume this is OK... But would it be better if I wrote '...and this fact is made clear...'

2) Is it better to say: "They are not auxiliaries unlike need which/that can be..."



3a) Is it better to say: "made clear by the to-infintive that follows these verbs, instead of the bare infinitive that follows auxiliaries.

OR

3b) Is it better to say: "made clear by the to-infintive that follows these verbs, whereas auxiliaries are folowed by the bare infinitive.

Thanks a lot!
  

Top answer

1. "this" seems fine to me. 2.

— Mr Wordy

  • 1.
  • "this" seems fine to me.
  • 2.
  • I don't like "unlike 'need' can be", and your other suggestion doesn't sound right.
  • " 3a.
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18 Answers
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1. "this" seems fine to me.

2. I don't like "unlike 'need' can be", and your other suggestion doesn't sound right. You could say: "Unlike 'need', they cannot be auxiliaries..."

3a. I think "instead of" is an improvement.
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Mr WordyI don't like "unlike 'need' can be", and your other suggestion doesn't sound right. You could say: "Unlike 'need', they cannot be auxiliaries..."

Thank you.

1) May I ask why you don't like what is presently there? I agree, it sounds awkward. But I can't see why.

2) 'Unlike' is a preposition. It can be followed by for example a n
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I parse (or attempt to parse) your original version (They are not auxiliaries unlike 'need' can be) with "unlike" as a conjunction -- essentially as I would You're tall, like I am. However, this does not work very well with "unlike".

The "noun + relative clause" structure is possible, but I find it a bit hard to parse the way you punctuated it. I guess you could set it off
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Mr Wordy parse (or attempt to parse) your original version (They are not auxiliaries unlike 'need' can be) with "unlike" as a conjunction

That is a good possiblity.
Mr Wordy
The "noun + relative clause" structure is possible, but I find it a bit hard to parse the way you punctuated it. I guess you could set it off like
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English 1b3What about it being a noun clause as the object of the preposition?

Well, I think that's how the version with "... unlike 'need', which can be, ..." works, doesn't it? "unlike" seems to be a preposition here.

However, as soon as you remove the word "which", I don't see how the sentence can function in that way any more.
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Mr WordyWell, I think that's how the version with "... unlike 'need', which can be, ..." works, doesn't it? "unlike" seems to be a preposition here.
No, there's a difference. As a noun clause, it has a subject and a predicate.

'unlike need which can be' is simply a noun with an adjectival/relative clause.

I didn't know about the man
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Right... you'll have to excuse my slightly loose grasp of some of this terminology!

Is it the words "'need' can be" that you're suggesting could form a noun clause? At the moment, I don't see how that would work. As a unit, it doesn't seem to refer to anything noun-like. Can you think of any clear-cut examples of the words "<noun> can be" functioning as a noun clause in any sentenc
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I can't think of one sorry.

Noun clauses perform the same functions in sentences that nouns do: Subject, object of a preposition, complement, etc.

Unlike=preposition

Need(S) can be(V)=clause (Object of preposition)

But, it could just be the noun, 'need, functioning as an object,' modified by a relative clause without a pronoun:

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Yes, I understand what you're saying.

To repeat, I do not personally see how "'need' can be" in your original sentence can be either a noun clause or a noun modified by a relative clause without "which". The only way I can make sense of it is as I originally described, where "unlike" seems to be functioning as a conjunction (although, as I mentioned, this reading does not seem very satis
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Mr WordyYes, I understand what you're saying.

To repeat, I do not personally see how "'need' can be" in your original sentence can be either a noun clause or a noun modified by a relative clause without "which". The only way I can make sense of it is as I originally described, where "unlike" seems to be functioning as a conjunction (although, as I mentioned, thi
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