Questions on the definite article

Question

1. Things don't always happen like in the movies.
2. Things don't always happen like in movies.

It seems that the first sentence can be used even when there's no prior mention of the movies and means more or less the same thing as the second example without "the". What is the difference?
From "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck:
"A young laboring man came in. His sloping shoulders were bent forward and he walked heavily on his heels, as though he carried the invisible grain bag."
Given this is the first reference in the book to the "invisible grain bag", I wonder why the "the" is used. Is it because figurative language is used here to refer to the concept of an "invisible grain bag" rather than a physical object? Could anyone explain to me the possible reasons that the author chose the definite article?
Thanks,
Becky

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]1. Things don't always happen like in the movies. 2. Things don't always happen like in movies. It seems that ... the movies and means more or less the same thing as the second example without "the". What is the difference?[/nq]
I am not an expert but it seems to me that 1. sounds the better of the two statements, but in 2. "the music is wrong". I would have written "Things do not always happen as they do in movies." The main subject of the sentence is "Things". If the main subject of the sentence had been movies then "the movies" may have been correct. Just my opinion!
[nq:1]From "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck: "A young laboring man came in. His sloping shoulders were bent forward and he walked heavily on his heels, as though he carried the invisible grain bag."[/nq]
It seems to me that many well established authors are not experts in their respective language. A few weeks ago I tried to read a book, but was unable to finish the first chapter. On the first page I encountered a single sentence having more than 95 words, and on pages 10 and 11 I stopped counting the words in another sentence when I got to 200.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]1. Things don't always happen like in the movies. 2. ... as the second example without "the". What is the difference?[/nq]
[nq:1]I am not an expert but it seems to me that 1. sounds the better of the two statements, but ... If the main subject of the sentence had been movies then "the movies" may have been correct. Just my opinion![/nq]
I think that "the movies" is sort of an idiomatic phrase in English. "in movies" would be OK too, I think, although I personally would be more likely to say "in the movies" in both your example and the original one.
[nq:2]From "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck: "A young ... his heels, as though he carried the invisible grain bag."[/nq]
[nq:1]It seems to me that many well established authors are not experts in their respective language.[/nq]
Article mistakes are rare among native speakers, in my experience but this is odd, I would have said "an invisible grain bag" as well. "the invisible grain bag" makes it sound like it's an allusion to some proverb or something like that.
-Chris

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]From "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck: "A young laboring man came in. His sloping shoulders were bent forward ... rather than a physical object? Could anyone explain to me the possible reasons that the author chose the definite article?[/nq]
You may have it wrong. Can you give a page number or chapter reference? There's one Google hit "invisible grain bag" and it shows it with "an," which is far more likely. But the book isn't old enough to be completely on-line, and I would need more of a clue to find it in my printed copy.

Best wishes Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]1. Things don't always happen like in the movies. 2. Things don't always happen like in movies. It seems that ... the movies and means more or less the same thing as the second example without "the". What is the difference?[/nq]
Prior reference is not absolutely necessary. Rather, the definite article guarantees that the hearer has enough information by the end of the sentence to identify the referent uniquely.
Normally this is because the speaker has given other information previously. In this case, the speaker is guaranteeing that the hearer knows enough about movies to understand.
In other words, "the movies" invites the hearer to use his background knowledge of movies to complete the reference.
[nq:1]From "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck: "A young laboring man came in. His sloping shoulders were bent forward and he walked heavily on his heels, as though he carried the invisible grain bag."[/nq]
With "the", this sentence guarantees that the hearer will know the reference without further information, as if this image were a standard phrase.
Unfortunately, it isn't standard for me (and not for Donna R either, apparently). But the sentence invites me to visualize the image as if it were a familiar one.
Gary

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]From "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck: "A young ... the possible reasons that the author chose the definite article?[/nq]
[nq:1]You may have it wrong. Can you give a page number or chapter reference? There's one Google hit "invisible grain ... enough to be completely on-line, and I would need more of a clue to find it in my printed copy.[/nq]
That's very kind of you!
In my penguin book version, the passage in question is at the bottom of page 45 (continuing on to page 46). It's ten pages into chapter three and the paragraph starts with "Candy looked a long time at Slim to try to find some reversal."
And yes, there sure is a google hit "an* invisible grain bag", but my book clearly says "*the invisible bag."
You put a lot of effort into studying the articles in English and just when you think you finally have a decent grasp, some strange usage always comes along to plunge you back into darkness...

Becky

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I am not an expert but it seems to me ... then "the movies" may have been correct. Just my opinion![/nq]
[nq:1]I think that "the movies" is sort of an idiomatic phrase in English. "in movies" would be OK too, I think, although I personally would be more likely to say "in the movies" in both your example and the original one.[/nq]
Is that the same as the "the" in "Some teenagers think they are ugly just because they don't look like the movie starts"? (Is this sentence possible at all?) A little googling tells me that in cases of this kind with the noun phrase "movie stars", versions without "the" are more likely. So is this all a matter of idioms and conventions?

Becky

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]You may have it wrong. Can you give a page ... of a clue to find it in my printed copy.[/nq]
[nq:1]That's very kind of you! In my penguin book version, the passage in question is at the bottom of page ... And yes, there sure is a google hit "an* invisible grain bag", but my book clearly says "*the invisible bag."[/nq]
I also have the Penguin edition, so I found it on that page, thank you. Yeah, it's "the." Still might be an error. If it conveys any meaning at all, it would be something like "like the bags that he'd been carrying for hours," because the crew actually had been threshing grain (p. 25).

I saw on p. 34, the old hands ask the new guys, "Gonna buck barley?" I wonder if that's this meaning of "buck" in m-w.com:
4 a : to pass especially from one person to another

Hmm. Like a bucket brigade. Buck, bucket... Coincidence?
[nq:1]You put a lot of effort into studying the articles in English and just when you think you finally have a decent grasp, some strange usage always comes along to plunge you back into darkness...[/nq]
Well, there's error, and there's poetic license... We're apparently as much in the dark on this one as you are. You can't win 'em all.

I remember finding some peculiar constructions in "Grapes of Wrath," although that was too long ago to remember any of them. Sometimes, especially when a writer has made a name for himself, his editors don't question him as much as they should, or even at all.

Best Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

"Becky" asks about:
[nq:2]1. Things don't always happen like in the movies. 2. ... as the second example without "the". What is the difference?[/nq]
[nq:1]Prior reference is not absolutely necessary. Rather, the definite article guarantees that the hearer has enough information by the ... ... In other words, "the movies" invites the hearer to use his background knowledge of movies to complete the reference.[/nq]
That's the right explanation of "the" being used in some situations, but not here. Compare:
3. Things don't always happen like in the books.
4. Things don't always happen like in books.
5. Things don't always happen like in the plays.
6. Things don't always happen like in plays.

The normal forms here are 4 and 6. You would say 3 or 5 only if there was a prior context referring to specific books or specific plays. But for movies, 1 and 2 are practically equivalent.
The actual explanation is simply that "the movies" is an established idiom referring to movies generally. For plays, on the other hand, the corresponding idiom is "the theater" (also spelled with -re). So 7 *is* possible:
7. Things don't always happen like in the theater.

and this construction corresponds to 1. (Of course 7 could also refer to a specific theater, if there was prior context establishing that.)
Mark Brader "It is hard to believe that any Biblical passage, Toronto no matter how powerful, could make an entire (Email Removed) Soviet submarine crew speak English and not even realize they were doing it." Mark Leeper
(Or in other words, see sentence 1 or 2.)
My text in this article is in the public domain.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]1. Things don't always happen like in the movies. 2. Things don't always happen like in movies. It seems that ... the movies and means more or less the same thing as the second example without "the". What is the difference?[/nq]
Sometimes there is no difference in functional meaning and choices are just defined by stylistic or sentence flow considerations.
[nq:1]From "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck: "A young laboring man came in. His sloping shoulders were bent forward ... rather than a physical object? Could anyone explain to me the possible reasons that the author chose the definite article?[/nq]
The following website has it as an indefinite invisible grain bag:

http://intranet.belperschool.co.uk/Subjects/English/Mice&men/Of%20Mice%20and%20Men%20quotation%20exercise.htm

#begin quote
'A young labouring man ... His sloping shoulders were bent forward, and he walked heavily on his heels, as though he carried an invisible grain bag.'
#end quote

"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata." +-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous"

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]From "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck: "A young ... the possible reasons that the author chose the definite article?[/nq]
[nq:1]The following website has it as an indefinite invisible grain bag:[/nq]
http://intranet.belperschool.co.uk/Subjects/English/Mice&men/Of%20Mice%2 0and%20Men%20quotation%20exercise.htm
[nq:1]#begin quote 'A young labouring man ... His sloping shoulders were bent forward, and he walked heavily on his heels, as though he carried an invisible grain bag.' #end quote[/nq]
[nq:1]the passage in question is at the bottom of page 45 (continuing on to page 46). It's ten pages into chapter three and the paragraph starts with "Candy looked a long time at Slim to try to find some reversal."[/nq]
Best wishes Donna Richoux

Questions on the definite article

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions