questions on tenses

Question

Hi,1. According to the Collins Cobuild Compact English Learner's Dictionary, the word shame has this definition among some others:If you say that something is a shame, you are expressing your regret about it and indicating that you wish it had happened differently.Here, I think the only thing that can give any hint as to why the use of past perfect for the underlined part is justified is the fact that he is expressing a regret about some thing or action that probably has happened some time before some other time event but I can't seem to locate that time event is.The sentence below is easier to understand (at least to me) why the past perfect has to be used:John wishes the incident of  his friend's leaving his hometown had happened before his sister's departure from Tokyo two years ago.Now, the time event seems clearer for the usage of the underlined past perfect.   Now, my question is why it can't be any of these?If you say that something is a shame, you are expressing your regret about it and indicating that you wish it  has happened or happened differently.      2. When you are writing you thoughts on some issue after reading some Bible verses, is it OK to use the present tense like this:On the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, Jesus calls out to people and said that all their needs ...Why not?On the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, Jesus called out to people and said that all their needs ...

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

1. This use of 'wish' involves a 'sequence of tenses', in the same way as, for example, reported speech. Consider a simpler example than yours.

eg The situation right now, in the present, is that Mary does not love me.

I say 'I wish Mary loved me'. I don't say 'I wish Mary loves me'.

Now consider this example.

Mary has not called me. I say 'I wish Mary had called me'. Don't thinkof this use of 'had called' as being related to 'one thing in the past before another'.

2. When you are writing you thoughts on some issue after reading some Bible verses, is it OK to use the present tense like this:

On the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, Jesus calls out to people and said that all their needs ...

Why not?

On the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles, Jesus called out to people and said that all their needs ...

You can tell a story all in past tense. eg Tom walked into the room. He smiled at Mary.

Or you can tell it all in present tense.eg Tom walks into the room. He smiles at Mary.

Either way is fine, in narration. But don't start mixing the tenses. Be consistent. This means that your first version about Jesus is not good, but your second version is fine.

Best wishes, Clive

CalifJim · Answer

Regarding your first question, this is just a matter of the grammar of the word wish. What is wished is never placed in a present-point-of-view tense (present, present perfect, future). A past-point-of-view tense is substituted (past, past perfect, future of the past [would ...]). Note the contrast with the grammar of hope, where this substitution is not made.

I hope they are ready. I wish they were ready.
I hope they have arrived. I wish they had arrived.
I hope they will leave. I wish they would leave.

CJ

Kooyeen · Answer

Hi Believer,
yes, it's a question of grammar. As Clive and Jim said, "wish" behaves that way.
I just wanted to say that...

BelieverNow, my question is why it can't be any of these?
If you say that something is a shame, you are expressing your regret about it and indicating that you wish it has happened or happened differently.

...yes, you use "it's a shame..." when you wish something has happened differently (in the past), or something happened or was happening differently (now).
And we should distinguish the uncountable "shame" from the expression "a shame", they have different meanings. Italians are very likely to be confused by that and say "It's a shame" when they actually mean "It's a disgrace".

CalifJim · Answer

and say "It's a shame" when they actually mean "It's a disgrace".

Can you elaborate on this?

To me "It's a shame" can be used to mean "It's a disgrace", although "It's shameful" is probably more common.

It's [a shame / shameful / a disgrace] how they treated him at the restaurant last night.

Maybe I'm the only one who uses it that way?

CJ

Kooyeen · Answer

Well, I could be wrong, but here's what my dictionary say:

Shame (uncountable): the feeling you have when you feel guilty and embarrassed because you, or someone who is close to you, have done something wrong. - This is "vergogna" in Italian.

A shame - it's a shame, what a shame: used when you wish a situation was different, and you feel sad or disappointed. Synonym = pity. - This is "peccato" in Italian.

So when Italians want to say "E' una vergogna" or "Che vergogna", they could say "It's a shame" or "What a shame", but that's not the same. If you say "What a shame you didn't come", that's not "Che vergogna che tu non sia venuto", because that would mean "You should feel ashamed of the fact that you didn't come".

Goodman · Answer

CalifJim
and say "It's a shame" when they actually mean "It's a disgrace".
Can you elaborate on this?

To me "It's a shame" can be used to mean "It's a disgrace", although "It's shameful" is probably more common.

It's [a shame / shameful / a disgrace] how they treated him at the restaurant last night.

Maybe I'm the only one who uses it that way?

CJ

Not really CJ. I am with you.

It's a shame to see a young man like him throwing away his future to drug.

Clive · Answer

Hi guys,

It's a shame to see a young man like him throwing away his future to drug.

When I look at this, the meaning I get is that the writer wishes the situation were different, is disappointed, is sad. I don't really see the main focus as saying that the young man should feel guilty, should be condemned, has done something shameful.

It's interesting to compare the expression It's a pity that a young man like him is throwing away his future on drugs . . . , because in both cases the speaker's feeling does indeed seem to involve pity rather than condemnation.

Best wishes, Clive

CalifJim · Answer

<<So when Italians want to say "E' una vergogna" or "Che vergogna", they could say "It's a shame" or "What a shame", but that's not the same.>>I take it that by could say you mean might mistakenly say.

I agree in the case of What a shame! But, to repeat what I meant in that previous post, I sometimes use It's a shame to mean E' una vergogna. I had the impression you thought that was not possible. I wanted you to realize that It's a shamecould be either the 'vergogna' shame or the 'peccato' shame.

Here's an amended version of that same example.

It's [a (dirty) shame / shameful / a disgrace / (una vergogna)] how (badly) they treated him at the restaurant last night. It's an outrage. They should be ashamed!

Contrast:

[It's a shame / What a shame / (Che peccato)] they were unable to attend. It was a great concert. [sigh] Well, maybe they'll be able to attend next month.

CJ

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