Questioning some punctuation from a novel?

Question

0 Hi guys, I'm working on my punctuation and am reading a lot of books. I  come across loads of examples where the punctuation does not make sense  according to a punctuation book I have been reading. I wonder if I  could just ask some questions about the paragraph below, which is from  a Thomas Hardy book I'm reading, "A pair of blue eyes"?02br02br01i00"Nobody would have expected the sun to shine on such an evening as  this. Yet it appeared, low down upon the sea. Not with its natural  golden fringe, sweeping the furthest ends of the landscape, not with  the strange glare of whiteness which it sometimes puts on as an  alternative colour, but as a splotch of vermillion red on a leaden  ground - a red face looking on with a drunk leer."02i02br02br00  First of all wouldn't the second sentence be better with just a comma  seperating it? As in "...such an evening as this, yet it appeared..." I  see a lot of sentences like this where a comma could be used because  the following sentence starts with the words "and, or, but, yet, or  while" but the author instead uses a period (full stop) and then starts  a new sentence with a word like "But".02br02br00  Also, is it good punctuation where Hardy connects the above two  sentences with a comma? "Not with its natural golden fringe, sweeping  the furthest end of the landscape, not with the strange glare..."02br02br00  Shouldn't that last comma instead be a semicolon?02br02br00  I'd be interested to know if I am trying to look at the "rules" too  much? Maybe punctuation has changed since the 19th century a bit, but I  am still trying to get a feel for what is correct, and where there is  room for indiviual style.0-

Clive · Accepted Answer

0Hi Franco,02br
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00Welcome to the Forum.02br
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01font01i00"Nobody would have expected the sun to shine on such an evening as this. Yet it appeared, low down upon the sea. Not with its natural golden fringe, sweeping the furthest ends of the landscape, not with the strange glare of whiteness which it sometimes puts on as an alternative colour, but as a splotch of vermillion red on a leaden ground - a red face looking on with a drunk leer."02i02br
02br
00First of all wouldn't the second sentence be better with just a comma seperating it? As in "...such an evening as this, yet it appeared..." I see a lot of sentences like this where a comma could be used because the following sentence starts with the words "and, or, but, yet, or while" but the author instead uses a period (full stop) and then starts a new sentence with a word like "But".00 The period before 'yet' makes a more definite or longer pause between the two thoughts. The reader gets a chance to absorb the first thought, before being 'surprised by the contrast' of the second thought. A comma is certainly an alternative, but it would reduce this effect. As you note yourself, these are stylistic01i00 choices02i00. I suggest that Hardy's01i00 choices02i00 are one of the many reasons that he is considered a great writer, unlike you and me.02br
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00Also, is it good punctuation where Hardy connects the above two sentences with a comma? "Not with its natural golden fringe, sweeping the furthest end of the landscape, not with the strange glare..."02br
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00Shouldn't that last comma instead be a semicolon?00 Here, I think the effect of the semi-colon would be to slow down the thought, to break it into two parts whereas Hardy's intention is to make one sweeping statement. Again, it's a matter of choice.02br
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00I'd be interested to know if I am trying to look at the "rules" too much? 00Well, it's good to know and look at the rules, but try to avoid thinking about them in an inflexible way.02font02br
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01font00 Maybe punctuation has changed since the 19th century a bit, 00Yes, it has.00 00There have been other changes, too.For example I'd suggest there has been a trend towards shorter and less complex sentences.02font02br
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01font00but I am still trying to get a feel for what is correct, and where there is room for indiviual style. 00Excellent ideas.02font02br
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01font00Best wishes, Clive02br
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Franco · Answer

0 Hi Clive, and thanks for the reply. I agree about sentences becoming shorter. It seems like there used to be longer sentences with more commas and semicolons, and that's part of what I like about those novels. It is a more complex form of writing and I'm not sure some of the modern authors could construct such long sentences, and make them sound so good at the same time.02br
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00 With his use of the comma instead of the semicolon, I suppose the question that raises in my mind is what kind of a comma is it he is using? I am thinking in terms of there being four types: Listing, gapping, bracketing and joining commas. When I can't classify a comma into those catagories I start to think it may be incorrect when this is obviously not the case.02br
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00 Ha, maybe I'll be as good a writer as Hardy if I live to be 400 years old. I am quite ignorant of these writers' use of punctuation to give such effect and give the reader time to think. It's quite interesting to hear it described and I hope to learn more about such styles of writing in future.0-

MrPedantic · Answer

0Hello Franco02br
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00You might add the cadential comma to your list – a comma whose function is to indicate the rhythm. 02br
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00People tend to punctuate for sense, now; but in Hardy's day, it was still common for one person to read out loud, and others to listen. Punctuation told the reader when to breathe, and what the intonation should be.02br
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00MrP0-

Anonymous · Answer

It seems to be O.K. as it is.

Anonymous · Answer

Simple answer - don't necessarily put the blame on the author.

Hardy's manuscripts are much less heavily punctuated than the published versions.
Different publishers work to different style guides - two versions of "the same" novel may have major differences in the detail.

Mpemba

Questioning some punctuation from a novel?

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