Question- please help!

Question

Hi,If a group of words make grammatical sense but are neither a clause nor a type of phrase, what are they?I want to know so that I can punctuate them correctly in a sentence; that is, I want to know if they need a comma to attach them to the main clause.Unfortunately, I have no good examples. 'with or without you help'  may be an example, but I think this is just an ellipse clause as the subject has been omitted.A type of phrase is usually determined by the head of the phrase and sometimes a group of words clearly is not a phrase or a clause.Hope you understand my perplexity, thanks!

AlpheccaStars · Accepted Answer

Well, there are sentences, which are made up of clauses (main, independent, dependent), and phrases (prepositional, gerund, infinitive, adverb, noun). There are no other grammatical structures I am aware of except interjections.

Eddie88 · Answer

Thanks, those are the ones I am aware of too. Perhaps a group of words I usually identify that are not phrases, are clauses with an omitted subject.

With or without your help- what would this be?

Secondly, the phrase you have listed are different from the phrases I have read of. They had the following: prepositional, absolute, appositive, gerund, particple and infinitive...

Thanks

Eddie88 · Answer

A phrase is a group of two or more grammatically linked words without a subject and predicate

This is a definition I found froma credible website, Hypergrammar.

This implies that that phrases may not be a part of the phrases you listed above. Your thoughts?

AlpheccaStars · Answer

With or without your help - this is a prepositional phrase (actually 2 prepositional phrases, joined by the conjunction 'or'). - written out it is:

with (your help) or without your help

Eddie88 · Answer

Oh, cool, thanks a lot! Because with is the head of the phrase, it is obvious it is a prep. phrase.

What about these when when the head doesn't seem to show me what type it is:

1) There relationship as been ongoing ever since, much to the frustration for some.

What are the bold and underlined words?

2)along with the many other parties you have hosted.

Is this a dependent clause? what type?

3)We have actually become great friends sharing passions which include poker, clothes, music, drinking

Sharing is the ing form of the verb share, so it is a verbal/non finite verb, correct?
So is it a participle or gerund?

Thanks.

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Eddie88Secondly, the phrase you have listed are different from the phrases I have read of. They had the following: prepositional, absolute, appositive, gerund, particple and infinitive...

I suppose that phrases can be classified in different ways - I found a good reference with a similar classification. But the classification can be two-dimentional: the part of speech of its head, and / or its grammatical function in a given sentence.
Noun phrases - includes special sub-categories: appositive (syntactical category), gerund, infinitive (but this can also function as an adjective or adverb)

Verb phrase (can refer to the predicate of a sentence, but also can be just the verb)
Adverbial phrase
Participial phrase - adjective
Prepositional phrase - but it can also function as a noun, adjective or adverb phrase
Absolute phrase - this is phrase that is almost a clause. It modifies the entire sentence.

Eddie88 · Answer

Cool thanks. Sounds like you know what you are talking about!

Could you please also answer the question just above your latest answer- thanks heaps!

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Eddie881) There relationship as been ongoing ever since, much to the frustration for some.

What are the bold and underlined words? - You can't just arbitrarily group words - you have to break it cown into individual elements. This is actually an adverb, and 2 prepositional phrases.
2)along with the many other parties you have hosted.

Is this a dependent clause? what type? - It cannot be an independent (main) clause because it is a fragment. It is actually a prepositional phrase: along with (preposition) the many other parties (noun phrase, object of preposition), followed by an adjectival (relative) clause, modifying "parties": (that) you have hosted)
3)We have actually become great friends sharing passions which include poker, clothes, music, drinking

Sharing is the ing form of the verb share, so it is a verbal/non finite verb, correct?
So is it a participle or gerund?
If it were written as:
Sharing passions which include poker, clothes, music, and drinking, we have actually become great friends.
it is a participial phrase, modifying the subject, "we".
In the original, it is a gerund phrase. The meaning is different, though!

We have become friends sharing passions. ... where the "friends sharing passions..." is the direct object of the verb. Friends is the subject of the gerund phrase.

Eddie88 · Answer

Wow! Your knowledge is incredible!

I somehow understood eveything you said, thanks. Except for when you said this:

We have become friends sharing passions. ... where the "friends sharing passions..." is the direct object of the verb. Friends is the subject of the gerund phrase.

1) In bold, friends sharing passions is the object of what verb? Have become?

2) Also, when you have a verb form, but it is the ing form; is it always a non-finite/verbal, which means it is a phrase-either a gerund or particple?

3) Additionally, have I punctuated the sentence above correctly?

Also, when you have a verb form=conjunctive adverb and subordinate clause
,but it is the ing form=coordinating conjunction and independent clause
;is it always a non finite/verbal=this is the question, but it is still an indep. clause, so it needs more than a comma to separate it from the preceding clause, correct?
which means (that) it is a phrase=relative clause?? two relative clauses??
either a gerund or paticiple=???

Sorry for going off-track slightly- (I am) just making the most of your expertise

4) Lastly, see this is another major question of mine, too, haha! After the hyphen, it is an independent clause with the subject and linking verb omitted, correct? (I am). Is it now a phrase and therefore a hyphen or comma is correct to seperate it from the main clause?

Thanks so much!!!!!

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Eddie88We have become friends sharing passions. ... where the "friends sharing passions..." is the direct object of the verb. Friends is the subject of the gerund phrase.

1) In bold, friends sharing passions is the object of what verb? Have become?
>> Yes. We have become good friends. (Friends is the direct object of "have become"). The difference between a gerund and a participle is that a gerund functions as a noun. It can be subject, or object.
Barking loudly was my dog's worst habit. >> Barking is the subject.
I was annoyed by my dog's barking loudly late at night. >> Barking is the direct object. The neat thing about gerunds is that they keep some of their verb qualities. So they can have subjects, objects, and adverbs. The subject of a gerund is usually in possessive case, as in the sentence above. But sometimes we don't use the possessive case:
I was annoyed by the dog barking loudly late at night.
2) Also, when you have a verb form, but it is the ing form; is it always a non-finite/verbal, which means it is a phrase-either a gerund or particple?

>> The -ing form can be part of a verb phrase - progressive tenses, or a participle (adjective), or a gerund.
The dog was barking. (past progressive)
The barking dog frightened the little girl. (participle)
Barking fiercely at the intruder, the dog scared him away. (participle phrase)
See above for gerunds.

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