Question on participle clause

Question

Hi all,May I kindly know what's wrong with using "to be increased" in sentence 1 ? Why do we have to use "being increased" but not "to be increased" in the following case? is it because the verb is following "avoid" and we have to use gerund after "avoid" ? Acutally I feel a little bit confused about the nature of "being increased". Is it a passive voice of present participle ?Does present participle in passive voice exist in particple clause world?Sentence 1: Overall, I agree with the fact that punishment is the way to avoid the crime to be increased and hence our lives become more secure.Sentence 2: Overall, I agree with the fact that punishment is the way to avoid the crime being increased and hence our lives become more secure. Sorry for asking too much.Thanks  a lot.Regards,Zeta

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

May I kindly know what's wrong with using "to be increased" in sentence 1 ? Why do we have to use "being increased" but not "to be increased" in the following case? is it because the verb is following "avoid" and we have to use gerund after "avoid" ? Basically, yes.

Acutally I feel a little bit confused about the nature of "being increased". Is it a passive voice of present participle ? Yes. You could almost argue that it is a participle used to describe 'crime', but really I think you are right to see it as a gerund. You could more fussily write the phrase as ''to avoid crime's being increased', which shows more clearly that it is a gerund.

Does present participle in passive voice exist in particple clause world? Yes.

Sentence 1: Overall, I agree with the fact that punishment is the way to avoid the crime to be increased and hence our lives become more secure.

Sentence 2: Overall, I agree with the fact that punishment is the way to avoid the crime being increased and hence our lives become more secure.

Best wishes, Clive

Anonymous · Answer

Thanks for your replying.

When I learn participle clause, the text book and website usually say "When it is active, use present participle and if it is passive, use past participle instead"

So when will we use present participle in passive voice ?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Zeta

CalifJim · Answer

Anonymous"When it is active, use present participle and if it is passive, use past participle instead"

It depends what "it" is. When what is active? If what is passive? There must be more to it than this. It sounds extremely oversimplified.

You actually have six choices of participial construction, not just two.

taking, being taken, taken, having taken, having been taken, having been being taken

(The last is so awkward as to be almost unusable. You'll hardly ever see it.)

CJ

ZetaCE · Answer

It was the most serious Belgian train accident since March 28, 2001, when eight people, including both drivers, died when a crowded train ploughed into an empty train being driven on the wrong tracks.

May I kindly know why present participle in passive voice is used in here instead of past participle (e.g. an empty train driven on the wrong tracks) ?

Thanks in advance.

Zeta

Dimsumexpress · Answer

AnonymousSentence 1: Overall, I agree with the fact that punishment is the way to avoid the crime to be increased and hence our lives become more secure.

Sentence 2: Overall, I agree with the fact that punishment is the way to avoid the crime being increased and hence our lives become more secure.

I think I would reword it like this:
Overall, I agree with the fact that hard punishment is the only [deterrent]/ way to prevent crime from rising....

Avoid and prevent have different connotations. We would all try to avoid driving in heavy rain.
We avoid something risky and hazardous. But we want to prevent something before it happens.

BillJ · Answer

AnonymousHi all,

May I kindly know what's wrong with using "to be increased" in sentence 1 ? Why do we have to use "being increased" but not "to be increased" in the following case? is it because the verb is following "avoid" and we have to use gerund after "avoid" ? Acutally I feel a little bit confused about the nature of "being increased". Is it a passive voice of present participle ?

Does present participle in passive voice exist in particple clause world?

Sentence 1: Overall, I agree with the fact that punishment is the way to avoid the crime to be increased and hence our lives become more secure.

Sentence 2: Overall, I agree with the fact that punishment is the way to avoid the crime being increased and hence our lives become more secure.

Hi Zeta

Yes, ‘being increased’ is passive, but ‘being’ is not a participle - it’s a passive auxilliary. ‘Increased’ is the participle and it’s past, not present. Passives are formed by using a form of the verb ‘be’ followed by the past participle of the main verb. In this case, the form of ‘be’ is the continous ‘being’ and the past participle is ‘increased’.

‘Avoid’ is a transitive verb, and ‘the crime being increased….’ is it’s direct object (not a gerund), but you can’t use the infinitive ‘to be’ here because that would mean ‘…to avoid the crime [that is to be increased]’ (i.e. a reduced relative clause). It wouldn’t be ungrammatical, but it’s clearly not what the writer intended to say.

Does that answer your concern?

With good wishes

BillJ

ZetaCE · Answer

Thanks BillJ.

Actually I still feel a little bit confused on when we use "present participle in passive voice" and when we use "past participle" in participle clause.

Here is my another question:
Sentence:

It was the most serious Belgian train accident since March 28, 2001, when eight people, including both drivers, died when a crowded train ploughed into an empty train being driven on the wrong tracks.

May I know why we use "being driven" in here instead of "driven" ?
My answer is derived from that:

...... when a crowded train ploughed into an empty train which was driven on the wrong tracks...(relative clause)

---> when a crowded train ploughed into an empty train driven on the wrong tracks... (reduced relative clause)

What's wrong in my deduction ?

Ivanhr · Answer

Hi ZetaCE,

1. Present participles cannot be used in passive voice.

2. With regard to your second question, 'being driven' here is just a reduced form of which was driven. 'Being' is often omitted in these kinds of constructions.

ZetaCE · Answer

IvanhrHi ZetaCE,

1. Present participles cannot be used in passive voice.

2. With regard to your second question, 'being driven' here is just a reduced form of which was driven. 'Being' is often omitted in these kinds of constructions.

Does it mean that both
....died when a crowded train ploughed into an empty train being driven on the wrong tracks
and
....died when a crowded train ploughed into an empty train driven on the wrong tracks.
are correct ?

Also, can it apply to question 1 ? e.g. avoid the the crime (being) increased

Thanks a lot

BillJ · Answer

Ivanhr
2. With regard to your second question, 'being driven' here is just a reduced form of which was driven. 'Being' is often omitted in these kinds of constructions.

'Being driven' here is just a reduced form of 'which was being driven', I think you mean.

BillJ

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