Question for CalifJim

Question

Hi,

Should I follow your advise on this topic? Here's what you said:

"P.S. Yes, native speakers do use the simple past at times when they really "mean to use" the present perfect."

Also, I've read on another forum a post that was written by a non-native english speaker about this topic. He was like, "I don't like this kind of structures, I like when an event in the past is clear, blabla". Should I ignore his opinion?

He thought that the following sentence meant that I still lived here: 'It's been 15 years since I've lived here.'

Anyways, about that sentences, do you recommend present pefect in the second part of the sentence? If so, why?

Also, will you please analyze the following sentence for me?

Have things changed since I've been out? - This is the original sentece.

Have things changed since I got burned? - This one isn't. But I'd like to know if it has the same meaning is the one above.

I'll try to give you some kind of context.

The guy who uttered the question used to be a spy. He got burned. He uttered the question a couple of months(I guess)after he got burned while talking to his girlfriend and another spy.

Thanks!

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Anonymous · Accepted Answer

AnonymousBut I'd like to know if it has the same meaning as the one above.

I hate typos.

Fivejedjon · Answer

AnonymousHe thought that the following sentence meant that I still lived here: 'It's been 15 years since I've lived here.'

CJ is not around at the moment, so I will tackle one part of your post.

'It's been 15 years since I've lived here.'

If I heard someone say that, I would assume that they had not lived 'here' for fifteen years; to put it another way, they lived 'here' until fifteen years ago, and then moved away.

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousShould I follow your advise on this topic? Here's what you said: "P.S. Yes, native speakers do use the simple past at times when they really "mean to use" the present perfect." Also, I've read on another forum a post that was written by a non-native english speaker about this topic. He was like, "I don't like this kind of structures, I like when an event in the past is clear, blabla". Should I ignore his opinion?

Of course. You should always follow my advice and ignore the opinions of others!

AnonymousHe thought that the following sentence meant that I still lived here: 'It's been 15 years since I've lived here.'

Well then he thought wrong, didn't he?

Anonymousdo you recommend present pefect in the second part of the sentence?

I don't have a very strong recommendation. The past works as well here and may be a little better, but both convey the same message.

It's been 15 years since [I've lived / I lived] here.

AnonymousHave things changed since I've been out? - This is the original sentece.Have things changed since I got burned? - This one isn't. But I'd like to know if it has the same meaning is the one above.

One is about being out; the other, about being burned, so no, they don't have the same meaning.

Nevertheless, the basic idea of indicating the starting point of a time period of interest with a since-clause is the same. It doesn't matter that one contains a present perfect and the other contains a simple past, if that's what you're focusing on.

CJ

I don't think you should address questions to any particular member of the forum.

fivejedjon, Thanks for filling in while I was away.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

fivejedjon'It's been 15 years since I've lived here.'

This (double present perfect) is not a recommended structure even though possible because it causes confusion in time and logic.
It's been x year ( a typical pattern) - establishes a measure of time spanning from past to the present, but since, a subordinate conjunction (in this type of structure) is linking that past event to the beginning of that measure of time. For instance:
It's been three days since John last showed up for work. "Last", by rules, signifies a finished past. From a logical point of view, it makes absolutely no sense to say " ....since John has shown up for work", which is the pattern in your sentence.
I am sure CJ will explain it with much better grammatical precision than me when he gets a chance.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

My apology fivejedjon, I didn't mean to have quoted you as the source of that sentence in question. It was a mental lapse on my part.

Fivejedjon · Answer

CalifJimvejedjon, Thanks for filling in while I was away

I am happy to try to fill a gap. That's all I am doing. I am not answering for/on behalf of you. I know that you, CJ, realise this; I am just making this clear to people who may not realise this.

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimNevertheless, the basic idea of indicating the starting point of a time period of interest with a since-clause is the same. It doesn't matter that one contains a present perfect and the other contains a simple past, if that's what you're focusing on.

Why did he use the version with 'since I've been out'?

'The short answer is that if you're talking about not having done something for a certain period of time, use the present perfect after since, and if you're talking about what you did some time ago, use the simple past.'

Do you prefer since + present pefect just like you described above? Do you use past simple sometimes? Why do native speakers sometimes use past simple when they should use present perfect? I'll start using these kind of sentences: It's been a long time since I've seen a good movie. because of the reason that you explained in the link that I've posted in the original post. Also, why do people(like dimsumexpress) keep saying that 'since+present perfect' makes no sense and should be avoided? Will I sound strange to native speakers if I use 'since + present perfect'? Do native speakers use that pattern? Thanks! Yes, I know, I've asked you lots of questions.

______

Is the third conditional used as much this way? - If he hadn't run after the car thief and suffered a heart attack, he probably would have been alive today.
_____

Would you rather choose this one? - If he hadn't run after the car thief and suffered a heart attack, he would be alive today.

Anonymous · Answer

Here's what MM wrote in another thread:

However, there are some cases in which the present perfect in the 'since' clause is appropriate: when that action also continues to the present, as with this:

I have seen him only twice since I have lived in Chicago.

How come? Does that mean I still live in Chicago? No, it doesn't.

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousWhy did he use the version with 'since I've been out'?

I don't know. Maybe he liked the sound of it better. It could have been since I went out.

since I've been out seems more like during the period of time while I was out.
since I went out seems more like during the period of time starting with my going out.
Either way it's the same period of time.

Anonymous'The short answer is that if you're talking about not having done something for a certain period of time, use the present perfect after since, and if you're talking about what you did some time ago, use the simple past.'Do you prefer since + present pefect just like you described above?

That sounds reasonable, though I can't guarantee it works for every single case that can be imagined.

AnonymousDo you use past simple sometimes?

Yes.

AnonymousWhy do native speakers sometimes use past simple when they should use present perfect?

I don't think there is necessarily a very strong "should" involved here.

AnonymousWill I sound strange to native speakers if I use 'since + present perfect'?

Probably not. It may depend on the exact verb you use.

AnonymousIs the third conditional used as much this way? - If he hadn't run after the car thief and suffered a heart attack, he probably would have been alive today.

No. The second part is about the present ("today") so a mixed conditional would probably be used.

If he hadn't ... (3rd), he probably would be ... (2nd).

AnonymousWould you rather choose this one? - If he hadn't run after the car thief and suffered a heart attack, he would be alive today.

Yes, as stated above.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Here're MM's words on the following sentence: However, there are some cases in which the present perfect in the 'since' clause is appropriate: when that action also continues to the present, as with this:

I have seen him only twice since I have lived in Chicago. - Does this mean I do not live in Chicago anymore?
________
It's been 15 years that I've lived here. - This means that I still live here, doesn't it?
______

One more question. Why do some people tend not to use 'since + present perfect'? Yes, you can't know for sure, but you're a native speaker.
Here's what I'll be doing in the future. I'll be using 'since+presente perfect' for the reasons that you described(or you've described? which one is better in this case and why?) in the thread that I've posted above. But sometimes I'll use 'since+past simple'. Does that sound reasonable?

I know I'm boring but until yesterday I didn't know anything about 'since+present perfect'. And then I saw your impeccable post.

The only thing that keeps bugging me ( ) is why some people tend not to use this pattern.
Is it used often there where you live? Assuming that you live in an English-speaking country.

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