Query about English Phrase

Question

Can any friend explain the origin of the phrase"Neck and Crop" ?K.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Can any friend explain the origin of the phrase "Neck and Crop" ?[/nq]
I never even heard of the phrase before. Onelook.com has two entries, one being a definition only:
Neck and crop, completely; wholly; altogether; roughly and at once. (Colloq.)
and the other is from Brewer's Phrase and Fable, an 1898 book you can only partly rely on. Brewer thinks it's from birds:

Neck and Crop.
Entirely. The crop is the gorge of a bird. 1
Michael Quinion muses about possible origins here, focusing on horses:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-com2.htm
Merriam-Webster points out that the "crop" is a section of a cow and other quadripeds. I think the conclusion is that nobody really knows the origin, but it's quite possibly something like "from head to foot."

Best Donna Richoux

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Today, Afzal A. Khan gosled:
[nq:1]Can any friend explain the origin of the phrase "Neck and Crop" ?[/nq]
I don't know whether I meet the qualifications you've asked for, but I'll try nonetheless. The neck and the crop are adjacnet parts of the body in some animals (in particular, birds). I suspect (but this is merely my own, folk, etymology) that "neck and crop" meaning all comes from these meanings. Others might have more educated answers.

Michael Hamm
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis
(Email Removed) Fine print:
http://www.math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Can any friend explain the origin of the phrase "Neck and Crop" ?[/nq]
[nq:1]I never even heard of the phrase before. Onelook.com has two entries, one being a definition only: Neck and crop, ... think the conclusion is that nobody really knows the origin, but it's quite possibly something like "from head to foot."[/nq]
I've always assumed that the expression comes from the hunting field, but never having ridden to hounds myself, I have no first hand evidence to offer. Apart from the couplet and the word associations mentioned by Michael Quinion which point to hunting, a riding crop is another connection. I somehow imagine someone unhorsed with necks, crops and cruppers whirling about him.

Paul
In bocca al Lupo!

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Can any friend explain the origin of the phrase "Neck and Crop" ?[/nq]
[nq:1]I never even heard of the phrase before. Onelook.com has two entries, one being a definition only: Neck and crop, completely; wholly; altogether; roughly and at once. (Colloq.)[/nq]
Interesting - maybe it's more of a UK expression. I've been familiar with it ever since I can remember, but I doubt whether I've ever used it. I had always supposed the crop was a bird's crop, but come to think of it that is rather a peculiar way to match the above definition (which I agree with) - rather like running the whole gamut of emotions from A to B.
Katy

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Neck and crop, completely; wholly; altogether; roughly and at once. (Colloq.)[/nq]
[nq:1]Interesting - maybe it's more of a UK expression. I've beenfamiliar with it ever since I can remember, but I ... match the above definition (which I agree with) - rather like running the wholegamut of emotions from A to B.[/nq]
It may be kith and kin to "part and parcel".

Mike.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I never even heard of the phrase before. Onelook.com has ... Entirely. The crop is the gorge of a bird. 1[/nq]
[nq:1]I've always assumed that the expression comes from the hunting field, but never having ridden to hounds myself, I have ... hunting, a riding crop is another connection. I somehow imagine someone unhorsed with necks, crops and cruppers whirling about him.[/nq]
I'd always assumed the same, though it's not a phrase I use every day; I'd mentally linked the neck of the horse and the riding-crop, and visualised the horse and rider going ****-for-leather, all-out, neck-and-crop.
But my Brewer , while agreeing with the 'bird' crop, also says "a variant of the phrase is 'neck and heels', as, "I bundled him out neck and heels." There was once a punishment which consisted in bringing the chin and knees of the culprit forcibly together, and then thrusting him into a cage." Charming.

Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Can any friend explain the origin of the phrase "Neck and Crop" ? K.[/nq]
from the OED2...
name="mII.6.b"b. name="16"neck and heels, = name="d0"name="q0"neck and name="d1"name="q1"crop. Now dial.
a1734 North Exam. (1740) 72 The Liberty of the Subject is brought in Neck and Heels, as they say. 1778 F. Burney Evelina xxv, To take and pull him neck and heels out. 1818 M. G. Lewis Jrnl. W. Ind. (1834) 137 The first thing that we now did was to turn him out of the sick-house, neck and heels.
1890 Glouc. Gloss. s.v., If there be another 'lection, they'll be obligatedto go out neck and heels.
name="mII.6.c"c. name="17"name="d2"name="q2"neck and name="d3"name="q3"crop, bodily, completely, altogether. Also attrib.
1816 in Hone Every-day Bk. (1825) I. 461 Explain the terms+name="q4"neck andname="q5"crop-bang up-and-prime. 1833 M. Scott Tom Cringle xvi, Chuck them name="q6"neck and name="q7"crop+down a dark staircase. 1865 Dickens Mut. Fr. i. xv, We're going in name="q8"neck and name="q9"crop for fashion. 1932 Kipling Limits & Renewals 398 That does not excuse the name="q10"neck-and-name="q11"crop abruptness+of+our expulsion. 1963 A. Ross Australia 63 v. 110 Titmus,-swinger away, was bowled name="q12"neck and name="q13"crop. 1967 (see
href="x:decolonization"decolonization).
hope that appears ok, it's posted as plain ASCII...

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Can any friend explain the origin of the phrase "Neck and Crop" ? K.[/nq]
[nq:1]from the OED2... name="mII.6.b"b. name="16"neck and heels, = name="d0"name="q0"neck and name="d1"name="q1"crop. Now dial. a1734 North Exam. (1740) 72 The Liberty ... an in-swinger away, was bowled name="q12"neck and name="q13"crop. 1967 (see href="x:decolonization"decolonization). hope that appears ok, it's posted as plain ASCII...[/nq]
Rec.puzzles might appreciate that. OED online has:

(quote)

17. a. neck over head: headlong. Obs. rare1.
1579 L. TOMSON tr. J. Calvin Serm. Tim. 247/1 Matters goe so neckeouer head, and men crye out, All is naught.
b. neck and heels: = neck and crop. Cf. to tie (also lay) neck and heels (sense 19). Now rare (Brit. regional in later use).

(1568 W. DUNBAR Poems (1979) 157 He..all bedret him Evin quyte frome nek till heill.) a1734 R. NORTH Examen (1740) I. ii. §81. 72 The Liberty of the Subject is brought in Neck and Heels, as they say. 1778 F. BURNEY Evelina I. xxv. 210 To take and pull him neck and heels out. a1818 M. G. LEWIS Jrnl. W. India Proprietor (1834) 137 The first thing that we now did was to turn him out of the sick-house, neck and heels. 1890 J. D. ROBERTSON Gloss. Words County of Gloucester s.v., If there be another 'lection, they'll be obligated to go out neck and heels.

c. neck and crop: bodily; totally; altogether. Also as adj.
1791 E. NAIRNE Poems 79 The startish beast took fright, and flop Themad-brain'd rider tumbled, neck and crop! 1816 in W. Hone Every-day Bk. (1825) I. 461 Explain the terms..neck and cropbang upandprime. 1833 M. SCOTT Tom Cringle's Log II. v. 185 Chuck them, neck and croup (sic)..down a dark staircase. 1865 DICKENS Our Mutual Friend I. I. xv.
137 We're going in neck and crop for Fashion. 1895 Philistine Sept. 110He had gotten an Indiana divorce from this woman five years before, but the courts had pronounced it invalid, and now she was upon him neck and crop. 1932 R. KIPLING Limits & Renewals 398 That does not excuse the neck-and-crop abruptness..of..our expulsion. 1967 Times 30 Nov. 11/1 If the full glory of decolonization is to throw the alien power out neck and crop, this satisfaction can hardly be denied the National Liberation Front. 1981 R. RENDELL Best Man to Die (BNC), I knew a familysix children in that case there werethey got evicted neck and crop just because they cracked a drainpipe.
(end quote)
I wonder why they lost Freddy; 'bowled neck and crop' is a stock phrase in cricketing English usage, as the Bun would say.

Before reading that, I would have guessed a culinary origin. 'Neck and crop' would be well and truly stuffed.

Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus those of alt.usage.english at tpg dot com dot au

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