Pronunciation of stop consonants

Question

"In final position (t) is aspirated and shortens the vowel before it, whilst (d) is particularly weak and makes only very little noise, but lengthens the vowel before it. However, speakers who tend not to allow (t) and (d) to explode in this position should be sure not only to make the difference of vowel length but also to allow the breath to explode out of the mouth."
But the book was written by an RP speaker, and a native AmE speaker told me that Americans don't explode or aspirate their stops and they pronounce them like glottal stops, keeping the tongue touching the alveolar ridge. How do you pronounce the "t" sound when it's in the final position of the word, like "cent", "heart", or "sight"?

Nobuko Iwasaki

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]"In final position (t) is aspirated and shortens the vowel before it, whilst (d) is particularly weak and makes only ... do you pronounce the "t" sound when it's in the final position of the word, like "cent", "heart", or "sight"?[/nq]
I don't know from linguistics and phonetics (we're sending Young Aaron to grad school for that), but I think the AmE speaker was right. The final in those words is realized as some sort of glottal stop by me when pronounced in isolation. When pronounced in a context where there's a closely linked following word beginning with a vowel, however, it turns into a flap sound (*) except for the combination, where I think it's more of a (t). (In the latter case, other Americans might just make the an (n) I think.) BIDRKWITA.
There are also unusual AmE pronunciations where you'd have an explosive or aspirated stop pronunciation of that terminal like when you're trying to carefully enunciate stuff or seem pseudo-thespio-British (the way some performers in a sideshow would do). (For an example of this, listen to Michael Hamm's recent recording where, as I recall, he artificially aspirates the final -t of "cat".)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I don't know from linguistics and phonetics (we're sending Young Aaron to grad school for that), but I think the ... context where there's a closely linked following word beginning with a vowel, however, it turns into a flap sound (*)[/nq]
In that case, "at the sight of" and "at the side of" become exactly the same pronunciation?
[nq:1]except for the combination, where I think it's more of a (t). (In the latter case, other Americans might ... of this, listen to Michael Hamm's recent recording where, as I recall, he artificially aspirates the final -t of "cat".)[/nq]
Thank you for the explanation. I listened to his "cat" at

http://www.math.wustl.edu/~msh210/recording.html
If that "t" is artificial, it seems I should consider pronunciation samples on the online dictionaries to be unnatural and that usually Americans don't pronounce them like they do. What about other stops, (p), (b), (d), (k), (g)? Do you aspirate them, when they are in the final position of the word?

Nobuko Iwasaki

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I don't know from linguistics and phonetics (we're sending Young ... a vowel, however, it turns into a flap sound (*)[/nq]
[nq:1]In that case, "at the sight of" and "at the side of" become exactly the same pronunciation?[/nq]
Oh, no. The and the are the same, as it were, but the vowels are different but I think that's the same in typical AmE "sight"/"side" pronounced in isolation either just a length difference, or maybe a different diphthong altogether (like that (aI) vs. (VI) distinction maybe).
That final / has got to be more than just a plain vanella (sic) glottal stop. I think it's a glottal stop with a hint of dentality. Because there are AmE accents where, I think, a plain vanella (sic) EstE-style glottal stop would be used.
[nq:1]Thank you for the explanation. I listened to his "cat" at http://www.math.wustl.edu/~msh210/recording.html If that "t" is artificial, it seems I ... stops, (p), (b), (d), (k), (g)? Do you aspirate them, when they are in the final position of the word?[/nq]
I'm not sure, but I think it might be the same story with these vowel length being the real thing that distinguishes the words for most speakers. Note, though, that for us New York Speakers (Largest Community of Speakers in America), we have the two kinds of "can" vowels, which complicates things a bit.
I'll note this. When I was first visiting the apartment building in Chicago where I eventually rented an apartment, the leasing office woman, who did not have any sort of thick accent, referred to a certain floor as a "dock floor". It turned out she was saying "dog floor" (this building permits tenants to have non-puppy dogs on certain floors but not on others). Part of the confusion there might have been her shifted "caught" vowel, but I wonder whether she used a rather short vowel for "dog" perhaps not unlike the shortness of the British RP "dog" (which some Americans seem to hear as "dug", though I don't).
But yes, you can't trust those recorded speakers on the dictionary websites. They're sideshow performers.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]In that case, "at the sight of" and "at the side of" become exactly the same pronunciation?[/nq]
[nq:1]Oh, no. The and the are the same, as it were, but the vowels are different but ... isolation either just a length difference, or maybe a different diphthong altogether (like that (aI) vs. (VI) distinction maybe).[/nq]
Oh, dear. IPA in my dictionaries (and online dictionaries) don't (doesn't?) differentiate the vowel of "sight" from that of "side". Is this because they are usually considered to be the same vowel and only people with a keen ear notice such things, or is it because too subtle for them?
[nq:1]That final / has got to be more than just a plain vanella (sic) glottal stop. I think it's a glottal stop with a hint of dentality. Because there are AmE accents where, I think, a plain vanella (sic) EstE-style glottal stop would be used.[/nq]
And what is the EstE-style glottal stop? A glottal stop without a hint of dentality?
[nq:2]What about other stops, (p), (b), (d), (k), (g)? Do you aspirate them, when they are in the final position of the word?[/nq]
[nq:1]I'm not sure, but I think it might be the same story with these vowel length being the real thing that distinguishes the words for most speakers.[/nq]
So in these examples below, what's important is the length of the vowels, not the difference of the last consonants:

rip - rib cap - cab rope - robe tripe - tribe tab - tap bet - bed heart - hard late - laid set - said brought - broad pick - pig back - bag lock -log dock - dog
[nq:1]Note, though, that for us New York Speakers (Largest Community of Speakers in America), we have the two kinds of "can" vowels, which complicates things a bit.[/nq]
"Be able can" and "tin can", ne? You mean non-New York Speakers only have one "can" vowel?
[nq:1]I'll note this. When I was first visiting the apartment building in Chicago where I eventually rented an apartment, the ... as "dug", though I don't). But yes, you can't trust those recorded speakers on the dictionary websites. They're sideshow performers.[/nq]
I'll keep it in mind. Thank you.

Nobuko Iwasaki

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]So in these examples below, what's important is the length of the vowels, not the difference of the last consonants: ... late - laid set - said brought - broad pick - pig back - bag lock -log dock - dog[/nq]
Reinhold (Rey) Aman

Usenet · Answer

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}
}
}> So in these examples below, what's important is the length of the }> vowels, not the difference of the last consonants: }>
}> rip - rib cap - cab rope - robe tripe - tribe tab - tap } > tap - tab }> bet - bed heart - hard late - laid set - said brought - broad }> pick - pig back - bag lock -log dock - dog }
}
And even then there's a little more than length different in cap - cab, tap - tab, and back - bag, except maybe in PSS English. And doc - dog is a ringer (Prof. F will be along in a minute to explain why).

Other than that, yeah.

R. J. Valentine

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]So in these examples below, what's important is the length of the vowels, not the difference of the last consonants: ... - laid set - said brought - broad pick - pig back - bag lock -log dock - dog[/nq]
I could be dead wrong, but for most of those examples, I believe the answer is yes for representative AmE accents. I think what's going on is that the final consonant is always unvoiced, and the distinction is instead made by way of the vowel (if only by duration). BICBDW.

However, in New York English (including my own accent, Postwar New York Prestige Standard), "back" and "bag" have vowels that are noticeably different even apart from length ("bag" having the "tense can" vowel and "back" having the "lax can" vowel). Same goes for tap/tab. Also, in I believe all AmE CINC accents, "dock" and "dog" have vowels that are distinct even at the phonemic level ("dock" having the "cot" vowel, "dog" having the "caught" vowel). In many AmE CINC accents, "lock" and "log" similarly differ, but this is not true of New York English, in which the only -og word that gets
the "caught" vowel is "dog" (well, and "dogma" too).

In representative CIC accents, such as Prewar Northern Utah Prestige Standard (PNUPS) (Most Prestigious Prewar Accent West of the Mister Sippy), "dock" and "dog" will presumably have the same vowel quality but will differ in length.
[nq:2]Note, though, that for us New York Speakers (Largest Community ... two kinds of "can" vowels, which complicates things a bit.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Be able can" and "tin can", ne? You mean non-New York Speakers only have one "can" vowel?[/nq]
You are correct, ma'am. Yes.

Usenet · Answer

(attribution not in quoted email:)
[nq:2]"Be able can" and "tin can", ne? You mean non-New York Speakers only have one "can" vowel?[/nq]
[nq:1]You are correct, ma'am. Yes.[/nq]
To be clear: there is only one vowel when the word is stressed. "Can you say that tin cans have become rare?" both instances of 'can' would use the same vowel. But in (apologies to STS victims) "anything you can do, I can do better", I'd expect to hear something pronounced more like k'n (or maybe kin or ken), probably in any dialect.

rzed

Usenet · Answer

Oh, golly.
For me, it depends on both the vowel and the consonant.

When followed by a pause, my /p/ is unvoiced and either unexploded stopping the breath with the lips or exploded. My /t/ is the same, but if its unexploded it pretty much coincides with a glottal stop, and you might not hear any dental sound at all. My /k/ is probably exploded.
My final /b/, /d/, and /g/ are unexploded but still voiced. How do I do that? There's probably a bit of an unresonant voiced nasal sound that fades out very quickly. I think a native speaker have no difficulty telling them from /m/, /n/, and /N/, which are articulated with my jaw higher and maybe other differences, and held longer. They're kind of reminiscent of the attempts at nasal sounds I make when I have a cold. (Actually, in all allophones of /g/ I sometimes don't quite stop the air, so the /g/ can be inaudible, but this is just bad pronunciation.)
The differences in my vowels before voiced and unvoiced consonants sound pretty subtle to me, except for /aI/ and /A:r/. Thus "write" is something like (rVIt) or (rVI?) but "ride" is (raId)(and "rye" is (raI)). Similarly, "start" is something like (stVrt) or (stVr?) but "starred" is (stArd) (and "star" is

).
I believe these distinctions are fairly common in the U.S., but not universal, or no one would ever write "party hardy" instead of the correct "party hearty".
Finally, as R J Valentine hinted, for lots of CINC Americans "dog" doesn't have the same vowel as "dock"; it's /dOg/. In fact, every word I can think of ending in -og I pronounce with /Og/. So not only "dock" and "dog", but "lock" and "log" have different vowels. I believe other Americans use /Og/ for some of these words and /Ag/ or /A.g/ for others.
(By the way, /aIr/ introduces a whole new set of complications, which I'm not going to get into right now.)
[nq:2]Note, though, that for us New York Speakers (Largest Community ... two kinds of "can" vowels, which complicates things a bit.[/nq]
[nq:1]"Be able can" and "tin can", ne? You mean non-New York Speakers only have one "can" vowel?[/nq]
This one does.
...

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]So in these examples below, what's important is the length ... - pig back - bag lock -log dock - dog[/nq]
[nq:1]I could be dead wrong, but for most of those examples, I believe the answer is yes for representative AmE ... consonant is always unvoiced, and the distinction is instead made by way of the vowel (if only by duration). BICBDW.[/nq]
I'd be interested in some expert's opinion as to what happens in BrE. What is clear is that final t/k/p are not aspirated as they mostly are in other positions, although I think that might depend on the initial letter of a following word. Is a BrE final 't' identical to an American medial, flapped 'd'?

Rob Bannister

Pronunciation of stop consonants

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