Pronunciation of "Marlborough" in the early 18th century

Question

I'd like to know how was "Marlborough" pronounced in the early 18th century. In a very popular, even nowdays, Spanish children's song he is called "Mambrú":
Mambrú se fue a la guerra,
¡qué dolor, qué dolor, qué pena!.
Mambrú se fue a la guerra,
no sé cuando vendrá.
Do-re-mi, do-re-fa,
no sé cuando vendrá.
It seems the translation of a French song:
Malborough s'en va-t-en guerre,
mironton, mironton, mirontaine,
Malb'rough s'en va-t-en guerre
ne sait quand reviendra,
ne sait quand reviendra.
This can explain the stress in the last syllable, but I'd expect something as "Malbará", not "Mambrú".

Saludos cordiales
Javi
Conjunction of an irregular verb:
I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I'd like to know how was "Marlborough" pronounced in the early 18th centu=ry. In a very popular, even nowdays, Spanish ... sait quand reviendra. This can explain the stress in the last syllable, but I'd expect somethin=g as "Malbar=E1", not "Mambr=FA".[/nq]
I've heard the song performed, and I think I remember that the French is=20 pronounced marbroo in the song. But you'd better ask about that on a=20 French group.
Gary=20

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[nq:2]I'd like to know how was "Marlborough" pronounced in the ... last syllable, but I'd expect something as "Malbará", not "Mambrú".[/nq]
[nq:1]I've heard the song performed, and I think I remember that the French is pronounced marbroo in the song. But you'd better ask about that on a French group.[/nq]
Thanks, Gary. The fact is that the duke of Marlborough fought in France and in Spain during the Spanish Sucession War (beginning of the 18th century), so I thought that tough the Spanish song may be a translation of the French song, the name "Mambrú" was the transliteration of how the English pronunciation of "Marlborough" sounded to the Spanish ear. But probably you are right and it is just the transliteration of how the French pronounced it in the song.

Saludos cordiales
Javi
Conjunction of an irregular verb:
I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I'd like to know how was "Marlborough" pronounced in the early 18th century. In a very popular, even nowdays, Spanish ... Saludos cordiales Javi Conjunction of an irregular verb: I am firm. You are obstinate. He is a pig-headed fool.[/nq]
I was at school with the son of the Duke of that ilk, and he pronounced it "Maulbura" (have no idea how to render this phonetically) e.g.
Mal... = Maul
...bo... = bu (as in reBUttal)
...rough = re (as in REbuttal)
Of course, he used to smoke Marlboro.
Edward

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I was at school with the son of the Duke of that ilk, and he pronounced it "Maulbura" (have no idea how to render this phonetically) e.g. Mal... = Maul[/nq]
/mOl/
[nq:1]...bo... = bu (as in reBUttal)[/nq]
/bV/
[nq:1]...rough = re (as in REbuttal)[/nq]
I'd think that many BrE speakers (especially the sort what go to school with sons of dukes) would have /rI/ in "rebuttal", but you probably mean a schwa, so /r@/. Or was this post-Suez?
[nq:1]Of course, he used to smoke Marlboro.[/nq]
In AmE that would be "he used to smoke Marlboros", I'd expect, though I'm not sure that using the plural is the general rule.

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[nq:2]You must specify the country and language as well as ... correct to pronounce the same name in English as Marlboro.[/nq]
[nq:1]Not in England. It's /mOlbr@/ or /mOlb@r@/ here, though /mAlb

r@/ is probably taking over.[/nq]
In Flatbush (The Heart of Brooklyn ), Marlborough Road was and probably still is pronounced /'mArl,bVroU roUd/ by rhotics and /'mA:l,bVroU roUd/ by non-rhotics. That's slightly different from the GenAm pronunciation, since GenAm is "hurry rhymes with furry", and "borough" has the "hurry" vowel.
I should clarify that there wasn't any Marlborough Road in Flatbush until the turn of the 20th century, when visionary developer Dean Alvord invented it.

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[nq:2]Not in England. It's /mOlbr@/ or /mOlb@r@/ here, though /mAlb

r@/ is probably taking over.[/nq]
[nq:1]In Flatbush (The Heart of Brooklyn ), Marlborough Road was and probably still is pronounced /'mArl,bVroU roUd/ by rhotics and /'mA:l,bVroU roUd/ by non-rhotics. That's slightly different from the GenAm pronunciation, since GenAm is "hurry rhymes with furry", and "borough" has the "hurry" vowel.[/nq]
Aha! A mystery solved. I couldn't understand why the Century Cyclopedia of Names ( www.m-w.com ) gave for the vowel in the middle of "Marlborough" the symbol "u" instead of an "e" with a dot over it, since the pronunciation notes for The Century Dictionary gave the following for those symbols:

"(e with a dot over it) as in her, fern, heard."
"u as in tub, son, blood."
I was unable to find any other words in which a "u" was used in front of an "r" in the representation of its pronunciation until I tried looking up the ones you mentioned above, "hurry" and "furry." The Century uses for the pronunciation of "hurry" a "u" and for the pronunciation of "furry" an "e" with a dot over it. (I see it also uses a "u" to represent the first vowel in the word "furrow").

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I'd like to know how was "Marlborough" pronounced in the early 18th century. In a very popular, even nowdays, Spanish ... song: Malborough s'en va-t-en guerre, mironton, mironton, mirontaine, Malb'rough s'en va-t-en guerre ne sait quand reviendra, ne sait quand reviendra.[/nq]
I see people have answered your question. However, the song is much older than the Duke of Marlborough, by the way, according to Brewer and everything I've heard on the subject. The original name was Malbrouk.
The usual words sung to this tune in the U.S. are "For he's a jolly good fellow, Which nobody can deny." Repeat each line as needed. Outside of this song, "jolly good" is very rare in U.S. English.

Jerry Friedman

Pronunciation of "Marlborough" in the early 18th century

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