Probability modal "should not"

Question

The phrase "It shouldn't rain tomorrow" means it's not likely to rain tomorrow.

However the phrase "I shouldn't exercise this afternoon" does not mean I'm not likely to exercise this afternoon, but that it wouldn't be a good idea for me to exercise this afternoon.

Can anyone tell me why the modal function in this phrase can't be used to imply probability when using "should not"?

( I could say "I won't exercise this afternoon", "I will exercise this afternoon", "I shall not exercise this afternoon", "I may not exercise this afternoon", "I might not exercise this afternoon", all with the function of implying probability, so why not "I should not exercise this afternoon"?)

Thanks.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

metal.carrattCan anyone tell me why the modal function in this phrase can't be used to imply probability when using "should not"?

Yes. I can tell you why. The subject is animate, and the action is something that can be considered advisable or inadvisable. The meaning of should often depends quite strongly on the animacy of the subject. But additionally, the type of action that a person can be advised to do or not to do will steer the listener away from a "probability" interpretation.

Nevertheless, all kinds of combinations are possible, and you might wish to study the examples below to determine for yourself what all cases of "probability" should have in common, and what all cases of "advisability" should have in common.

Subject inanimate -- "probability" should:

It shouldn't rain today. There aren't any clouds.
That problem shouldn't take too much effort to solve.
The house shouldn't be on the market very long. It should sell very quickly.
___

Subject inanimate -- "advisability" should:

That kind of movie should not be shown to children.
The newly painted fence should not be touched until the paint dries.
This product should not be used in a closed space.
___

Subject animate -- "probability" should:

Thomas shouldn't be very long at the bank. Let's wait for him here.
The students shouldn't need any more hints. They are smart enough to figure out the answer.
The boss shouldn't have any objections to our plans.
___

Subject animate -- "advisability" should:

Thomas shouldn't exercise so much.
The students shouldn't come to class unprepared.
Children shouldn't be allowed to watch that kind of movie.
___

Have you worked it out? Consider the relationship of the words after should to commands. For example, it makes sense to say "Don't show that movie to children", but not "Don't need any more hints".

CJ

Metal.carratt · Answer

Thank you very much for your long and detailed answer.

I understand the bit about animate/inanimate subjects, but I don't quite understand the advisability part. I noticed that for inanimate subjects with advisable function, the verbs are all passive. Is this intentional or just coincidental?

For a probability should with animate object:

"Don't need any more hints" - not a command
("don't ask for any more hints" would be better, and "the students shouldn't ask for any more hints" is advisability, not probability, so that's good)

"Don't have objections to our plans" - not a command
("don't object to our plans" would be better, and "the boss shouldn't object to our plans" is advisability, not probability, so that's also good)

But, "Don't be very long at the bank" - seems okay to me...?

Thanks for your effort.

CalifJim · Answer

metal.carrattI noticed that for inanimate subjects with advisable function, the verbs are all passive. Is this intentional or just coincidental?

Coincidental. I was looking for examples that weren't passive, but I couldn't think of any at the time. How about these for examples with active voice?

The invitation should go out to all members of the committee.
For best results, the lotion should remain on the skin for half an hour.
Your essay should not contain more than one paragraph explaining the derivations of the words.

metal.carrattBut, "Don't be very long at the bank" - seems okay to me...?

The subtle reason here that it's not a reasonable imperative (for purposes of confirming an advisability reading) is that the most probable situation described in this particular sentence is one in which the subject doesn't have significant control over how long his business at the bank will take. The bank has the control.

We, the outsiders, can't base our interpretation of should on the basis of an 'unperformable' imperative. In some vague sense, the true associated imperative is "Don't let it take a long time for you to do at the bank what you need to do". Whatever it is, it will take as long as it must take.

In short, the advisability interpretation fails when the associated imperative has no force because the person commanded does not have enough control over the situation to carry out the imperative.
____________

This pattern is very common for all cases where a task takes a certain amount of time, and a judgment is made about how long it might take. All of them are read as probability should, not advisability should.

Molly should be ready in a few minutes.
It shouldn't take me long to finish this letter.
We should have the problem solved in no time.
____________

But don't think that there are no ambiguous cases. There are times when, especially without context, it is impossible to make a definite determination whether probability or advisability should is the intended interpretation.

The men should be there by 10 o'clock.

1. I think they will be there by 10. / This is my estimate of their arrival time.
2. It is advisable for them to be there by 10 (if, say, they want to collect their paychecks).

CJ

Metal.carratt · Answer

Thanks for your help.  I think I get it now.  <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/>

Probability modal "should not"

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