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MrGuedes Posted 13 years ago
Grammar
Present Perfect vs Past Simple (to forget)
Hello!
Well, school has begun, and with it, debates over English have begun as well...
A few days ago, I was doing an English worksheet, and I noticed something didn't add up... A fill-in-the-blank question had a sentence saying: "I never ___ (forget) what you told me".
I immediately thought "I have never forgotten what you told me", but there was no blank space before "never", so that couldn't be it. But hardly anything else could fit there as well...
So, then it came up to me: "I never forget what you told me"! "Oh! Great! I think this is it. Let me just get my teacher's opinion on this." After explaining the problem, she told me she agreed with me about the use of the Present Perfect, but she checked the correction, and she saw that the right answer was actually "I never forgot what you told me".
"Say what?! That can't be! That's the Past Simple. That indicates that the speaker, in the past, for some period of time, did not forget, but now may have forgotten. It doesn't have the same interpretation as the Present Perfect, which indicates the action (not forgetting) continues until now!"
"No, but it's the Past Simple, because the speaker did not forget."
"But it has the word 'never'! That's a key word for Present Perfect!"
"But it's the Past Simple. Besides that, you have the clause "(...) you told me" in the Past Simple, thus being a clue for the Past Simple."
"No! The listener telling something to the speaker and the speaker not forgetting it are two different actions! They aren't related, and thus don't have to use the same tense!"
Fruitless fight. I could not convince her that the Past Simple would be misused there. It's a common mistake for Portuguese learners of English, because both tenses translate as one single tense in Portuguese. But I had learnt that one of the main differences between those tenses is that the Present Perfect is used for actions that continue up to the present, whereas the Past Simple is used for actions that began and ended in the past. Additionally, there are key words which normally indicate without a mistake the tense to use. "Never" is one of those that refers to the Present Perfect.
Nevertheless, both of us are Portuguese, and neither of us is totally reliable when it comes to the English language (although I'm still almost sure I'm right). So I thought I would ask here, so that some English native speakers could say something. What do you think? Present Perfect or Past Simple here? Or, considering that the Present Perfect doesn't fit there, is the Present Simple a better option?
By the way, she also said that, either in British or in American English—she wasn't sure which one—the Past Participle form of the verb to forget was "forgot", rather than "forgotten". "Hum... That's strange..." I knew about "get—got—got" in BrE, versus "get—got—gotten" in AmE, but I didn't know anything similar happened with "forget". After some research, I found out that the standard Past Participle of "to forget" is "forgotten", and the use of "forgot" for the same effect is quite rare, but, if you don't mind, I'd still like to have some expert's opinion on this... What do you think?
Thank you very much in advance!
Well, school has begun, and with it, debates over English have begun as well...
A few days ago, I was doing an English worksheet, and I noticed something didn't add up... A fill-in-the-blank question had a sentence saying: "I never ___ (forget) what you told me".
I immediately thought "I have never forgotten what you told me", but there was no blank space before "never", so that couldn't be it. But hardly anything else could fit there as well...
So, then it came up to me: "I never forget what you told me"! "Oh! Great! I think this is it. Let me just get my teacher's opinion on this." After explaining the problem, she told me she agreed with me about the use of the Present Perfect, but she checked the correction, and she saw that the right answer was actually "I never forgot what you told me".
"Say what?! That can't be! That's the Past Simple. That indicates that the speaker, in the past, for some period of time, did not forget, but now may have forgotten. It doesn't have the same interpretation as the Present Perfect, which indicates the action (not forgetting) continues until now!"
"No, but it's the Past Simple, because the speaker did not forget."
"But it has the word 'never'! That's a key word for Present Perfect!"
"But it's the Past Simple. Besides that, you have the clause "(...) you told me" in the Past Simple, thus being a clue for the Past Simple."
"No! The listener telling something to the speaker and the speaker not forgetting it are two different actions! They aren't related, and thus don't have to use the same tense!"
Fruitless fight. I could not convince her that the Past Simple would be misused there. It's a common mistake for Portuguese learners of English, because both tenses translate as one single tense in Portuguese. But I had learnt that one of the main differences between those tenses is that the Present Perfect is used for actions that continue up to the present, whereas the Past Simple is used for actions that began and ended in the past. Additionally, there are key words which normally indicate without a mistake the tense to use. "Never" is one of those that refers to the Present Perfect.
Nevertheless, both of us are Portuguese, and neither of us is totally reliable when it comes to the English language (although I'm still almost sure I'm right). So I thought I would ask here, so that some English native speakers could say something. What do you think? Present Perfect or Past Simple here? Or, considering that the Present Perfect doesn't fit there, is the Present Simple a better option?
By the way, she also said that, either in British or in American English—she wasn't sure which one—the Past Participle form of the verb to forget was "forgot", rather than "forgotten". "Hum... That's strange..." I knew about "get—got—got" in BrE, versus "get—got—gotten" in AmE, but I didn't know anything similar happened with "forget". After some research, I found out that the standard Past Participle of "to forget" is "forgotten", and the use of "forgot" for the same effect is quite rare, but, if you don't mind, I'd still like to have some expert's opinion on this... What do you think?
Thank you very much in advance!
Top answer
"I never ___ (forget) what you told me" . Assuming, because that's what exercises of this type often do assume, that you are permitted to insert words only in the gap, then 'forget' and 'forgot' are both possible. With perfect and modal constructions, the auxiliary will normally come before 'never', but it can come after,;
- "I never ___ (forget) what you told me" .
- Assuming, because that's what exercises of this type often do assume, that you are permitted to insert words only in the gap, then 'forget' and 'forgot' are both possible.
- With perfect and modal constructions, the auxiliary will normally come before 'never', but it can come after,;
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12 Answers
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"I never ___ (forget) what you told me".
Assuming, because that's what exercises of this type often do assume, that you are permitted to insert words only in the gap, then 'forget' and 'forgot' are both possible.
With perfect and modal constructions, the auxiliary will normally come before 'never', but it can come after,;
Assuming, because that's what exercises of this type often do assume, that you are permitted to insert words only in the gap, then 'forget' and 'forgot' are both possible.
With perfect and modal constructions, the auxiliary will normally come before 'never', but it can come after,;
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fivejedjon(...) then 'forget' and 'forgot' are both possible.But "forgot" sounds strange there. "I never forgot what you told me". Isn't it odd? Could you say it's actually "correct"? If I heard that, I'd say the speaker meant to say "I've never forgotten (...)". What kind of interpretation would this use of the Past Simple actually have, as opposed to
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MrGuedes"Never" is one of those that refers to the Present Perfect.So they say, but it is common practice to use the simple past with never. It may be an Americanism, but I don't think so. It can have the effect of a forceful didn't.
A very surprising and unexpected turn of events can elicit I never saw it coming.
Asked you
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Both of these are OK.
I never forgot what you told me This sounds like the speaker is thinking only of the past, and indeed of some finished period in the past.
eg When I was in college, I never forgot what you told me.
eg I spent 3 years
I never forgot what you told me This sounds like the speaker is thinking only of the past, and indeed of some finished period in the past.
eg When I was in college, I never forgot what you told me.
eg I spent 3 years
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Hmm... Now that you mention that, CalifJim, it is indeed common to use it. But I've always thought it was wrong... It may be common practice in colloquial speech, but that doesn't agree with what I've been taught. Maybe I could use it, though, in cases where the subject is already deceased, and there's no hope they'll ever perform that action. For example, I might say "Columbus never found out
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CliveBoth of these are OK.I never forgot what you told me This sounds like the speaker is thinking only of the past, and indeed of some finished period in the past.eg When I was in college, I never forgot what you told me.eg I spent 3 years in China. I never forgot what you told me.Hmm... Putting things that way, maybe it isn't that bad... But that would only
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MrGuedesIt may be common practice in colloquial speech, but that doesn't agree with what I've been taught.It just could be that what you were taught was not completely correct.
MrGuedesMaybe I could use it, though, in cases where the subject is already deceased, and there's no hope they'll ever perform that action.The sub
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MrGuedes"Columbus never found out he hadn't actually reached India" ...I believe you may need to rethink this. For example, given surprising information about one of your close friends, you really don't want to say I've never known she felt that way. It should sound wrong to you.
... Apart from that case, I think I would never use such a thing.
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OK. I get it. It actions that are definitely in the past, you should use the Past Simple, even with "never". Thanks for the explanation!
By the way, I've also asked you to comment about the Past Participle of "to forget" being either "forgot" or "forgotten". When do you use one or the other? If you don't mind, I'd just like to have that other question answered... Thanks!
By the way, I've also asked you to comment about the Past Participle of "to forget" being either "forgot" or "forgotten". When do you use one or the other? If you don't mind, I'd just like to have that other question answered... Thanks!
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MrGuedescomment about the Past Participle of "to forget" being either "forgot" or "forgotten".For me the past participle is forgotten. I'm American, so I use forget, forgot, forgotten just as I use take, took, taken. It may be different in British English.
CJ
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