Present Perfect versus Simple Past

Question

1. SENTENCES:

1. What are you doing? I (tell) ______ you not to touch my suitcase!

2. What an unusual print! Where (you find) __________ it?

In both cases the grammar book gives me as keys the simple past ("I told you..." and " did you find it?") and so I told my students.

Anyway some of them put the present perfect and asked me why their answers were uncorrect. They said they chose the ppbecause there's a link between present and past. I was unable to give them any explanation...

Actually, I'm in two minds too, especially regarding sentence n.2, but my students need an answer to clarify their doubts (and so do I...) :-(

What I ask you is:

- as for sentence n. 1, I would use the simple past just because it sounds me better, but is the pp uncorrect? If so, why?

- as for sentence n. 2: me, too, I would have used the present perfect, because the first part of the sentence shows me the print is there, before me.... Why is the past tense the only correct tense, instead? What' s the rule behind?

Thank you in advance for your help!

PlP

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

Not particularly easy to explain, Anxiety. Both sentences could possibly take present perfect, but if so, they really require more context.

1-- Simple past: as a matter of fact, the speaker wished to stress that the warning came clearly in the past. Present perfect would have a better chance of acceptance if there were more context: Are you doing it again? I've told you a million times not to touch my suitcase!

2-- Simple past again. The print is clearly found, as in an art shop, but was not particularly looked for at length, and is obviously new to the speaker (What an unusual...). Present perfect does not work well here; the item is found-- a discrete action in the past. On the other hand, searching for it would easily take present perfect: Where did you find it? I've been looking for a print like that for ages!

As the original sentences stand, neither presents a grammatical or semantic link between past and present worthy of using present perfect. The past is always there before us: this computer I bought in 2002, this coffee cup my wife gave me in 1998-- the simple juxtaposition of past and present does not of itself call for the use of present perfect. The link must be stronger than that: the event must be still occurring (or not yet occurring, or occurring repeatedly) or significantly just finished.

I have been looking for that print for years.
I have never found it.
I have looked each time I've gone into the city.
And at last-- I have finally found it!

Anxiety · Answer

Mister Micawber The link must be stronger than that: the event must be still occurring (or not yet occurring, or occurring repeatedly) or significantly just finished.

I have been looking for that print for years.
I have never found it.
I have looked each time I've gone into the city.
And at last-- I have finally found it!

I had to read you answer at least 3 times before catching it, but at the end I think I got it!

As a teacher, I've always spoken about the pp + its evident results in the present, so the sentences craeted confusion in my pupils and myself...

So, if I catched it properly, in both the sentences the action occurred significantly in the past, no matter - of course! - the tense in the first part of each. If the action had been still in progress or repeated, the pp would have been the right tense to use!

Thank you so much, Mr Micawber: today I've learned something more!

Magic79 · Answer

0What tense would we use to talk about inventions. For example, woud you say 02br
02br
00"Addison discovered electricity (simple past because it happened at a time known to most people though the speaker may not remember the year)? 02br
02br
00or 02br
02br
00Addison has discovered electricity (present perfect becasue his invention is still used today and thus still connected to the present)?"02br
02br
00simple past vs present perfect still poses a challenge even to teachers of English around the world as in my school, the teacher chose to use the present perfect even though I feel that the simple past is the only right answer. 02br
02br
00Your help is much appreciated.0-

Mister Micawber · Answer

1b00Simple past02b00. Its connection to the present, that is, its present use, is not the point.0-

Goodman · Answer

0 01blockquote

01cite10Anxiety12cite101. SENTENCES:12br
12br
10 1. What are you doing? I (tell) 11i10______12i11font10 12font10 you not to touch my suitcase!12br
12br
10 2. What an unusual print! Where (you find) 11i10__________12i10 it?12br
12br
10 In both cases the grammar book gives me as keys the simple past ("I 11b11font10told12font10 12b10you..." and " 11font11b10did12b12font10 you find it?") and so I told my students.12br
12br
10 Anyway some of them put the 11font10present perfect12font10 and asked me why their answers were uncorrect. They said they chose the 11font10pp12font10because there's a link between present and past. I was unable to give them any explanation... 15012br
12br
10 Actually, I'm in two minds too, especially regarding sentence n.2, but my students need an answer to clarify their doubts (and so do I...) :-(12br
12br
10 What I ask you is:12br
12br
10 - as for sentence n. 1, I would use the 11font10simple past12font10 just because it sounds me better, but is the 11font10pp12font10 uncorrect? If so, why?12br
12br
10 - as for sentence n. 2: me, too, I would have used 11font10the present perfect12font10, because the first part of the sentence shows me the print is there, before me.... Why is the 11font10past tense12font10 the only correct tense, instead? What' s the rule behind?12br
12br
10Thank you in advance for your help!12br
12br
10PlP12br
12br
12blockquote

10Hi Anxiety,02br
02br
00In my opinion, if we really want to nitpick and be speech-perfect, I would use Pres. Perfect on # 1 and just a simple past tense for # 2.02br
02br
00For # 1, I 00 00feel that 00 00to stress the point, [I 00have told you ( many times)00 not to touch…] has much more semantical and lexical effect than . 00 00Present perfect carries an annotation of an on-going message which works well in this context. 02br
02br
00For # 2, In contrary with the context of an [unusual print], [where did you fin fit?] is much more idiomatic and logically correct because [where have you found that print] just sounds unfitting due to the fact that once you found something, the act of finding is completed. 00 00Having said that, in many context, [have found] are much more prevailing.02br
02br
00i.e. After failing two marriages, he 00has finally found00 his soul mate in Jennifer..02br
02br
00 00He tried several careers in the past ten years. I think Jack 00has finally found00 the job he likes which is being a policeman. 02br
02br
010id10

CalifJim · Answer

0 01blockquote

00What tense would we use to talk about inventions?12blockquote

10Use simple past if the invention or discovery is well known and has been known for a long time.02br
00 Use present perfect only if the invention or discovery is very recent and/or unknown by most people, and you wish to announce it as if it is late-breaking news.02br
02br
00 Electricity was known by the ancients, so there's no chance that its discovery can be considered a hot news item. The very fact that we don't need to explain what electricity is argues for the use of the simple past.02br
02br
00 In contrast, suppose hyperionization (a made-up phenomenon) is discovered. A newspaper might announce this as: 02br
01i00Professor Johnson has (recently) discovered a new phenomenon called hyperionization, which he claims will be of invaluable use to mankind.02i02br
02br
00 Note that some explanation of the new term is required. The journalists are not just going to say.02br
01i00Professor Johnson has discovered hyperionization02i00 or 01i00Professor Johnson discovered hyperionization.02i02br
00 because nobody even knows yet what it is, and these formulations assume that the reader does know what hyperionization is (and may even have been looking forward with great anticipation to its discovery).02br
02br
00 Note that a similar set of criteria is used to report deaths. We don't say 01i00Shakespeare has died 02i00or 01i00Beethoven has died02i00. These events are not recent enough to be currently newsworthy, and almost everyone would know that.02br
02br
00 CJ0-

Magic79 · Answer

0Thanks Mister.02br
02br
00Thanks Calif. I like your lucid explanation. Your elaboration on the answer of Mister is greatly appreciated! I dont think any grammar book could provide the help that you do. Thanks a ton!0-

Kooyeen · Answer

0 01blockquote

01cite10CalifJim12cite10A newspaper might announce this as: 12br
11i10Professor Johnson has (recently) discovered a new phenomenon called hyperionization, which he claims will be of invaluable use to mankind.12i12br
12br
10 Note that a similar set of criteria is used to report deaths. We don't say 11i10Shakespeare has died 12i10or 11i10Beethoven has died12i10. These events are not recent enough to be currently newsworthy, and almost everyone would know that.12br
12br
10 CJ12br
12blockquote

12br
00 Hi, I feel I'm learning something new. I would have said 01i00"Professor Johnson (recently) discovered a new..."02i00 or "01i00Good evening. President Flush died." 02i00Always simple past, I'm afraid to use the present perfect sometimes. 02br
02br
00 I've always thought that when the present perfect is used, there's always a kind of implicit 01i00yet, up to now, so far02i00. Ex: "01i00I have seen that movie"02i00 - which corresponds to a question like 01i00"Have you seen that movie (yet...)?"02br
02i00Plus, I've always thought that in those cases (in which I use the present perfect), the simple past tense would be fine as well. This fact leads to my simple rule: 01i00"When in doubt, use the simple past"02i00 (rule for American English).02br
02br
00 Anyway, it seems I have to add something to what I know. It seems we can use the present perfect when something happens in a time frame that ends now, and we don't know exactly when that fact happened, maybe it just happened (I heard this in a movie 01i00"Oh no, Lightning Mc Queen has blown a tire!"02i00). 02br
00 But I don't feel confident at all. I mean, wouldn't it be fine to just say 01i00"Oh no, Lightning Mc Queen blew a tire!"? 02br
02i00And if you found out that there's something wrong, what would you say? 01i00"Oh no, someone [has eaten / ate] all my french fries!" - "Oh no, someone [has broken / broke] my favourite Chinese vase!" 02i00(I would use the past simple)02br
02br
00 Thanks02br
01i02br
02br
02i00 0-

CalifJim · Answer

0 Your rule of thumb, by which you use the simple past when in doubt, is just fine in the examples you cite. That will work, too.02br
02br
00 But the present perfect can also be used in those cases, and often is, because the fact reported is regarded by the speaker as relevant to the present situation. 02br
02br
00 BrE prefers the perfect tense and AmE the simple past in many of these situations. (Many more situations have current relevance to the British mind, apparently. I guess we impatient Americans tend to classify these situations as irrelevant past history nearly as soon as they happen!)02br
02br
00 CJ0-

Anonymous · Answer

I think there could be a simpler explanation like in the first sentence the speaker wants to refer to the time in the past when he warned the other person and that is a specific time in the past (the time when I warned you)

Same goes for the second sentence you 've already found the machine .I now want to ask about the place where you found it as I consider the fact that you found it is past.

Most of the time present perfect and simple past can be used interchangeably. It depends on the meaning you want to deliver e.g. If I said I worked here for three years I want to deliver the meaning that I don't work there anymore and the action is finished But If I said I 've worked here for three years I want you to know that I still work in this place and I started working threee years ago. Both sentences are correct but conveying differet meaning.

Hope I helped

Present Perfect versus Simple Past

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions