Present perfect progressive

Question

I have a little vague ideas about the following sentences.

1.Since this morning, I ( ) six dozen cookies. Now I need to wrap them up. a. have baked b. have been baking.

2.Since we moved to this neighborhood, we ( ) many new friends. a. have made b. have been making

I thought that after since-clause, in most cases we have to use present perfect progressive except for some stative verbs. In number 1, if we don't have the clause "Now I need to wrap them up" , I think that "have been baking" is better but since "Now-clause" implies that I already finished baking cookies, " have baked" is more proper. But I am not still 100% sure. Is there anyone who will explain more to be clear?

In number 2, frankly I don't know which one is much more proper. I think both is okay.

thanks for the help.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I have a little vague ideas about the following sentences. 1.Since this morning, I ( ) six dozen cookies. Now ... I thought that after since-clause, in most cases we have to use present perfect progressive except for some stative verbs.[/nq]
No, this is an over-generalisation
[nq:1]In number 1, if we don't have the clause "Now I need to wrap them up" , I think that "have been baking" is better but since "Now-clause" implies that I already finished baking cookies, " have baked" is more proper.[/nq]
No, the key element here is "six dozen cookies", the result of the baking.
[nq:1]But I am not still 100% sure. Is there anyone who will explain more to be clear? In number 2, frankly I don't know which one is much more proper. I think both is okay.[/nq]
See above - and it should be "both are okay".

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

Usenet · Answer

The inimitable "Mark" (Email Removed) stated one day
[nq:1]I have a little vague ideas about the following sentences. 1. Since this morning, I ( ) six dozen cookies. ... I thought that after since-clause, in most cases we have to use present perfect progressive except for some stative verbs.[/nq]
There's no such rule that I know of. I think the present perfect works more often in such a case, but I'm not sure. Perhaps you could give a few examples of sentences where the present perfect progressive is preferrable or necessary.
[nq:1]In number 1, if we don't have the clause "Now I need to wrap them up" , I think that "have been baking" is better[/nq]
No, it still doesn't work because of the specific number of cookies, which implies that the baking is over, and because of the order of the sentence, IMHO. It would be better to say "I've been baking cookies since this morning" or "Since this morning, I've been baking those 6 dozen cookies I have to bring to the bake sale tonight", which implies that the speaker is still baking the cookies. I don't much care for the order of phrases in the sentences beginning with "Since this morning"; it doesn't sound especially idiomatic to me. I'm sure it's grammatically fine, but it sounds more like Yiddish-English than British or American English.
[nq:1]but since "Now-clause" implies that I already finished baking cookies, " have baked" is more proper.[/nq]
"more proper" is the wrong phrase; it has to "correct". But the present perfect progressive can still be used even though the action has just ended. One can say, for example, "I've been running around like a chicken with its head cut off all day long and now I'm exhausted, so I'm going to take a nap for the next two hours. Don't disturb me, please". The running around is over --- just over --- so ppp is okay .
[nq:1]But I am not still 100% sure. Is there anyone who will explain more to be clear? In number 2, frankly I don't know which one is much more proper. I think both is okay.[/nq]
I'd say that "have made" is correct. For "have been making" to be the correct answer, the first phrase would have to be "Since moving to this neighborhood," IMHO. Again, though, I don't like the since-phrase at the beginning of the sentence. The normal order is to put it at the end.

By fronting the since-phrase in both sentences, the time period is emphasized and becomes the focus of the sentence, and the rest of the sentence is secondary. That makes me feel that the tense ought to be present perfect and not present perfect progressive: the part that comes after the since-phrase describes what the speaker has done since X.

On the other hand, assuming the questions asked were "What have you been doing since this morning?" and "What have you been doing since you moved here", both sentences could take the present perfect progressive.

This demonstrates that grammar is only a part of what using a language is about. The rest is context and style. Grammatically, both forms of the verb can be used in both sentences, but this native speaker of American English doesn't like either sentence as a grammar question. I don't think they are real native-speaker speech.

Usenet · Answer

The inimitable Einde O'Callaghan (Email Removed) stated one day
[nq:2]I have a little vague ideas about the following sentences. ... wrap them up. a. have baked b. have been baking.[/nq]
[nq:1]a. is correct - the emphasis is on teh result and not on teh process.[/nq]
I'm happy to see that we agree on this for the same reason. Your response is much shorter than mine was, though..
[nq:2]2.Since we moved to this neighborhood, we ( ) many new friends. a. have made b. have been making[/nq]
[nq:1]Again a. is better in my opinion - for the same reason, although b. might be plausible in some circumstances.[/nq]
Yes, I agree with this too.
[nq:2]I thought that after since-clause, in most cases we have to use present perfect progressive except for some stative verbs.[/nq]
[nq:1]No, this is an over-generalisation[/nq]
[nq:2]In number 1, if we don't have the clause "Now ... already finished baking cookies, " have baked" is more proper.[/nq]
[nq:1]No, the key element here is "six dozen cookies", the result of the baking.[/nq]
And this too. We have the same reasons for the same choices. That's reassuring. I hate these kinds of grammar tests because I can always create scenarios where both answers are correct. But your response has renewed my otherwise boundless self-confidence. Thank you, Einde.

Usenet · Answer

Thank you Einde and Cyber for the detailed answer. "I don't think they are real native-speaker speech." this means they don't care about the grammar when they speak? If then, how do they speak? "We made so many friends since We moved here", ungrammatical expression like this? Regards.
[nq:1]The inimitable "Mark" (Email Removed) stated one day[/nq]
[nq:2]I have a little vague ideas about the following sentences. ... to use present perfect progressive except for some stative verbs.[/nq]
[nq:1]There's no such rule that I know of. I think the present perfect works more often in such a case, but I'm not sure. Perhaps you could give a few examples of sentences where the present perfect progressive is preferrable or necessary.[/nq]
[nq:2]In number 1, if we don't have the clause "Now I need to wrap them up" , I think that "have been baking" is better[/nq]
[nq:1]No, it still doesn't work because of the specific number of cookies, which implies that the baking is over, and ... especially idiomatic to me. I'm sure it's grammatically fine, but it sounds more like Yiddish-English than British or American English.[/nq]
[nq:2]but since "Now-clause" implies that I already finished baking cookies, " have baked" is more proper.[/nq]
[nq:1]"more proper" is the wrong phrase; it has to "correct". But the present perfect progressive can still be used even ... two hours. Don't disturb me, please". The running around is over --- just over --- so ppp is okay .[/nq]
[nq:2]But I am not still 100% sure. Is there anyone ... one is much more proper. I think both is okay.[/nq]
[nq:1]I'd say that "have made" is correct. For "have been making" to be the correct answer, the first phrase would ... speaker of American English doesn't like either sentence as a grammar question. I don't think they are real native-speaker speech.[/nq]

Usenet · Answer

The inimitable "Mark" (Email Removed) stated one day
[nq:1]Thank you Einde and Cyber for the detailed answer. "I don't think they are real native-speaker speech." this means they don't care about the grammar when they speak? If then, how do they speak?[/nq]
It means only that I think this is the kind of sentence that and writers of grammar books and teachers of grammar create in order to test grammar skills. It is so much easier to write one's own sentences than to borrow text from a novel or a textbook or to transcribe it from a radio or TV program, a movie, of real conversations between native speakers recorded on the street or elsewhere. Such sentences are controllable, but not so native-speaker language.
[nq:1]"We made so many friends since We moved here", ungrammatical expression like this?[/nq]
None of the sentences is ungrammatical. This one is typical of what an American speaker would say informally. A British English speaker would be more liely to say "We've made so many friends since we moved here" informally. Grammaticality isn't the issue here; idiomaticity is.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I have a little vague ideas about the following sentences. 1.Since this morning, I ( ) six dozen cookies. Now ... 2, frankly I don't know which one is much more proper. I think both is okay. thanks for the help.[/nq]
Progressive tenses indicate an action that is still going on rather than a completed action.

1.Since this morning, I ( ) six dozen cookies. Now I need to wrap them up. a. have baked b. have been baking.

If you need to wrap them the cookies are baked. So the baking is no longer progressive and 'have baked' expresses correctly the completed action.

2.Since we moved to this neighborhood, we ( ) many new friends. a. have made b. have been making

Even though you made many new friends there might be more new friends in the future. So the action is still progressive and 'have been making' correctly expresses that fact.

Of course, if the cookies you made to serve your new friends tasted terrible you may end up with no friends at all.

That's why there's a tense called 'Past Definite' -:)

Usenet · Answer

John Ramsay | misc.education.language.english in news:(Email Removed)
[nq:1]Progressive tenses indicate an action that is still going on rather than a completed action. 1.Since this morning, I ( ... more new friends in the future. So the action is still progressive and 'have been making' correctly expresses that fact.[/nq]
I guess it really depends on what you want to enphasize: the friends you have already met ("have made") or all the new friends including those you could meet today or tomorrow (have been making)
-- Enrico C ~ I am no native speaker.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The inimitable Einde O'Callaghan (Email Removed) stated one day[/nq]
[nq:2] a. is correct - the emphasis is on teh result and not on teh process.[/nq]
[nq:1]I'm happy to see that we agree on this for the same reason. Your response is much shorter than mine was, though..[/nq]
[nq:2]Again a. is better in my opinion - for the same reason, although b. might be plausible in some circumstances.[/nq]
[nq:1]Yes, I agree with this too.[/nq]
[nq:2]No, this is an over-generalisation No, the key element here is "six dozen cookies", the result of the baking.[/nq]
[nq:1]And this too. We have the same reasons for the same choices. That's reassuring. I hate these kinds of grammar tests because I can always create scenarios where both answers are correct. But your response has renewed my otherwise boundless self-confidence. Thank you, Einde.[/nq]
Glad to be of service. ;-)

I'm sometimes reminded of my experiences in my early days of teaching when I occasionally used to say "you can never use (some tense or other) in these circumstances" - every time I said something like this in an advanced class I would be prtesented with a counter-example negating my statement within a week. I now never say "never". ;-)

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Thank you Einde and Cyber for the detailed answer. "I don't think they are real native-speaker speech." this means they ... speak? If then, how do they speak? "We made so many friends since We moved here", ungrammatical expression like this?[/nq]
There are slightr differences between Britihs and American English regarding the use of the present perfect. I think the example you give might be accepßtable in American English, but Franke will be able to be more definite on this. In British English "We have made so many friends since we moved here" would be preferable.

Present perfect progressive

Top answer

Get the Weekly English Kit 📬

Related Questions