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Jooney Posted 13 years ago
Grammar
Postposing
Hi,
Rebecca Minkoff, a fashion designer, makes a point of turning off the ringers and leaving her two phones on the opposite end of her Dumbo apartment when she plays with her 2-year-old son, Luca. “It isn’t easy, but I do my best to make the few hours I have with my son cellphone-free until he goes to sleep,” Ms. Minkoff said.
I do my best to make the few hours I have with my son cellphone-free until he goes to sleep.
The structure of the above sentence is as follows:
I do my best to make A cellphone-free. (where A=the few hours I have with my son until he goes to sleep)
Q1) I'd like to know if the following version is also possible.
I do my best to make the few hours cellphone-free that I have with my son until he goes to sleep.
The relative clause is heavy in comparison with 'cellphone-free'. For this reason, I put it at the end of the sentence instead of in the default position.
Another example like this would be:
A: Kim a lent a book which contained all the information he needed to Ed.(Basic order)
B: Kim lent a book to Ed which contained all the information he needed.(Postposing)
Q2) It puzzles me why only the preposition phrase 'until he goes to sleep' was moved to the end of the sentence instead of the whole part that corresponds to A. (A=the few hours I have with my son until he goes to sleep). Is there a reason for doing so?
Rebecca Minkoff, a fashion designer, makes a point of turning off the ringers and leaving her two phones on the opposite end of her Dumbo apartment when she plays with her 2-year-old son, Luca. “It isn’t easy, but I do my best to make the few hours I have with my son cellphone-free until he goes to sleep,” Ms. Minkoff said.
I do my best to make the few hours I have with my son cellphone-free until he goes to sleep.
The structure of the above sentence is as follows:
I do my best to make A cellphone-free. (where A=the few hours I have with my son until he goes to sleep)
Q1) I'd like to know if the following version is also possible.
I do my best to make the few hours cellphone-free that I have with my son until he goes to sleep.
The relative clause is heavy in comparison with 'cellphone-free'. For this reason, I put it at the end of the sentence instead of in the default position.
Another example like this would be:
A: Kim a lent a book which contained all the information he needed to Ed.(Basic order)
B: Kim lent a book to Ed which contained all the information he needed.(Postposing)
Q2) It puzzles me why only the preposition phrase 'until he goes to sleep' was moved to the end of the sentence instead of the whole part that corresponds to A. (A=the few hours I have with my son until he goes to sleep). Is there a reason for doing so?
Top answer
I do my best to make the few hours cellphone-free that I have with my son until he goes to sleep. It is not natural in that position. The restrictive relative clause "that I have with my son" immediately follows the noun it modifies (Hours).
- I do my best to make the few hours cellphone-free that I have with my son until he goes to sleep.
- It is not natural in that position.
- The restrictive relative clause "that I have with my son" immediately follows the noun it modifies (Hours).
- jooney Q2) It puzzles me why only the preposition phrase 'until he goes to sleep' was moved to the end of the sentence instead of the whole part that corresponds to A.
- (A=the few hours I have with my son until he goes to sleep).
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17 Answers
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jooneyQ1) I'd like to know if the following version is also possible.I do my best to make the few hours cellphone-free that I have with my son until he goes to sleep.It is not natural in that position. The restrictive relative clause "that I have with my son" immediately follows the noun it modifies (Hours).
jooneyQ2) It puzzles
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Hi Astars,
Thanks for the prompt reply. How about the examples below?
A: I found the book he had recommended me before Christmas difficult to read.
B: I found the book he had recommended me difficult to read before Christmas.
C: I found difficult to read the book he had recommended me before Christmas.
Only B and C are acceptable, right?
Thanks for the prompt reply. How about the examples below?
A: I found the book he had recommended me before Christmas difficult to read.
B: I found the book he had recommended me difficult to read before Christmas.
C: I found difficult to read the book he had recommended me before Christmas.
Only B and C are acceptable, right?
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jooneyA: I found the book he had recommended me before Christmas difficult to read.That is fine if the recommendation was made before Christmas,
jooneyB: I found the book he had recommended me difficult to read before Christmas.That is fine if the attempt to read the book was made before Christmas.
jooney
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AlpheccaStars'until he goes to sleep' is a dependent clause. It is not a prepositional phrase.In modern grammar it’s a PP, in which he goes to sleep is a dependent clause.
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Aspara GusIn modern grammar it’s a PP, in which he goes to sleep is a dependent clause.Huddleston and Pullum use this type of terminology. few other writers do. It may (or may not) become generally accepted, but I don't think we can yet say this is 'modern grammar', which rather suggests that the more traditional approach is old-fashioned and no longer accep
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fivejedjonI don't think we can yet say this is 'modern grammar'I think we can. H&P’s CGEL is inarguably one of the most—if not the most—authoritative grammars to date. When modern grammar is brought up, how can one not think CGEL?
fivejedjonwhich rather suggests that the more traditional approach is old-fashioned and no l
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fivejedjon which rather suggests that the more traditional approach is old-fashioned and no longer accepted.Well, it's not accepted by Huddleston and Pullum, anyway!
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CalifJimNevertheless, I have to say that I, too, have trouble wrapping my brain around "until" as a preposition when a clause follows!What about a gerund-participial clause?—Until working with Ed, I had never met anyone with such a strong work ethic.
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Hi fivejedjon,
fivejedjonThat is fine if the recommendation was made before Christmas,
fivejedjonThat is fine if the attempt to read the book was made before Christmas.Thank you for your answers. I can discriminate between the two now.
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