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Geekatfeet Posted 16 years ago
Grammar
Postmodified plurals and generic meaning
Hello!
I would be thankful for some native speaker input with an area of article usage in English that's been causing me some trouble: the use of the definite article with postmodified plural noun phrases. I have been reading a lot on this topic, but when i come across real-life examples outside grammar books I'm often confused about the presence or absence of the definite article. Here is one example:
The historian, unlike the physicist, has to deal with forms of activity in which the will is present.
Now, an often-cited rule states that postmodification in principle renders the noun phrase (singular or plural) specific and definite (as in 'The girls sitting over there are my cousins'). Since the noun 'forms' is (heavily) postmodified in the above example (of activity in which the will is present), why is there no definite article in front of it? My intuitive interpretation here is that despite postmodification, the zero article suggests that the whole phrase is still generic (in the sense 'ALL such forms...'), but I'm not a native speaker and cannot really rely on my intuition.
Had the author written:
The historian, unlike the physicist, has to deal with the forms of activity in which the will is present.
in what way would the interpretation have changed? Would the definite article have suggested that such forms are limited in number and/or well-known and therefore specified and definite? Or is the difference between the examples purely stylistic?
Sorry for the long post... any help is greatly appreciated!
I would be thankful for some native speaker input with an area of article usage in English that's been causing me some trouble: the use of the definite article with postmodified plural noun phrases. I have been reading a lot on this topic, but when i come across real-life examples outside grammar books I'm often confused about the presence or absence of the definite article. Here is one example:
The historian, unlike the physicist, has to deal with forms of activity in which the will is present.
Now, an often-cited rule states that postmodification in principle renders the noun phrase (singular or plural) specific and definite (as in 'The girls sitting over there are my cousins'). Since the noun 'forms' is (heavily) postmodified in the above example (of activity in which the will is present), why is there no definite article in front of it? My intuitive interpretation here is that despite postmodification, the zero article suggests that the whole phrase is still generic (in the sense 'ALL such forms...'), but I'm not a native speaker and cannot really rely on my intuition.
Had the author written:
The historian, unlike the physicist, has to deal with the forms of activity in which the will is present.
in what way would the interpretation have changed? Would the definite article have suggested that such forms are limited in number and/or well-known and therefore specified and definite? Or is the difference between the examples purely stylistic?
Sorry for the long post... any help is greatly appreciated!
Top answer
In what way would the interpretation have changed? -- No change; partly stylistic, perhaps. The point is that the sentence is linear, and the writer may or may not be thinking of the post-modification (which specifies the noun) before he actually gets to it.
- In what way would the interpretation have changed?
- -- No change; partly stylistic, perhaps.
- The point is that the sentence is linear, and the writer may or may not be thinking of the post-modification (which specifies the noun) before he actually gets to it.
- If he is thinking of the post-modification before he writes 'forms', then he may well preface that with the definite article, but if he is only thinking of 'forms' and not the restriction to follow, then he may not use 'the'.
- In any case, once the sentence is complete, the post-modification does its job, and the 'forms' become specific with or without the article.
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4 Answers
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In what way would the interpretation have changed?-- No change; partly stylistic, perhaps.
The point is that the sentence is linear, and the writer may or may not be thinking of the post-modification (which specifies the noun) before he actually gets to it. If he is thinking of the post-modification before he writes 'forms', then he may well preface that with the definite article
The point is that the sentence is linear, and the writer may or may not be thinking of the post-modification (which specifies the noun) before he actually gets to it. If he is thinking of the post-modification before he writes 'forms', then he may well preface that with the definite article
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Thanks, Mister Micawber!
I often find structures like that one in reading and I was worried I was missing something. My mother tongue has no article system and I find myself struggling with the specific/generic distinction sometimes.
I often find structures like that one in reading and I was worried I was missing something. My mother tongue has no article system and I find myself struggling with the specific/generic distinction sometimes.
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Hi. Please help. I think the short example sentence denotes things are not exhaustive but only includes some. I think one could have written "She saw some things of value in the market" and meant basically the same.
She saw things of value in the market.
And I think the sentence "She saw the things of value in the market" would have a different meanin
She saw things of value in the market.
And I think the sentence "She saw the things of value in the market" would have a different meanin
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geekatfeetSince the noun 'forms' is (heavily) postmodified in the above example (of activity in which the will is present), why is there no definite article in front of it? My intuitive interpretation here is that despite postmodification, the zero article suggests that the whole phrase is still generic (in the sense 'ALL such forms...')That would be my inter
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