Possessive case or Catenative verb?

Question

Are imagine and picture a catenative verb?Example:1. ''I never imagined a dishwashing liquid being used for anything other than washing dish.''2. ''I can't imagined him bathing a dog.''3. ''I don't know if you can picture me holding a huge turtle.''Thanks in advance.

Englishmaven · Accepted Answer

These are not examples of catenative verbs. You have a change of subject in these examples. A catenative example would not.

I started singing. (catenative - no change of subject)

Jasonkhlim · Answer

Hi Englishmaven.
So, What are they?

AlpheccaStars · Answer

jasonkhlimAre imagine and picture a catenative verbs?

Your examples are of verbs with a reduced clause as a complement. The verb in the reduced clause has a subject, which comes between the two verbs.

1. ''I never imagined a dishwashing liquid being used for anything other than washing dishes.''
2. ''I can't imagined him bathing a dog.''
3. ''I don't know if you can picture me holding a huge turtle.''

Catenative verbs are verbs that can be followed directly by another verb — the second verb variously in the to-infinitive, bare infinitive, or present participle / gerund form. Commonly the second verb (along with any clause it might introduce) serves as the direct object of the first verb.
For example, in He deserves to win the cup, deserve is a catenative verb, followed directly by another verb, in this case in the to-infinitive form; and "to win the cup" is the direct object of "deserves".

Here are examples of catenative verbs. The two verbs are not separated by a noun:

Can you imagine driving a Rolls Royce?
I can't imagine bathing a dog.'

Rodney Huddleston and Geoffrey K. Pullum, A Student's Introduction to English Grammar. Cambridge University Press, 2006:

"The term 'catenative' is derived from the Latin word for 'chain,' for the construction is repeatable in a way that enables us to form chains of verbs in which all except the last have a non-finite complement:

She seems to want to stop trying to avoid meeting him.

Each of the italicized verbs here has a non-finite clause as complement.

CalifJim · Answer

AlpheccaStarsRodney Huddleston

It appears to me that Rodney keeps changing his mind about some of these constructions.

In 1984 (Introduction to the Grammar of English) and in 1988 (English Grammar, An Outline), he clearly includes sentences like Ed intended Liz to repair it (1984) and She persuaded him to change his mind (1988) in the category of "catenative constructions", saying that the "intervening NP" may be treated syntactically as the "object of the catenative" (verb) and semantically as the subject of the non-finite complement clause.

Of "complementation by non-finite constructions" he says "there is much disagreement over ... the analysis". His examples of this "most difficult [area] of English grammar" are

He tried to sell it.
She advised me to buy it.

In effect, he divides (used to divide?) "catenative constructions" into two kinds: with and without an intervening NP.
_________________

Are you absolutely sure that the 2006 work specifically excludes sentences like Ed intended Liz to repair it from the classification "catenative"? If so, what term is he using now?
____

I am well aware that some sources, like the Wikipedia article, use 'catenative' only when there is no intervening NP, but this seems to proliferate terminology more than necessary. (My opinion.)

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

jasonkhlimPossessive case or Catenative verb?

Definitely not 'possessive case'. And in spite of all the discussion above about 'catenatives', I'm not so sure those are catenatives either. Those examples may be "complex-transitive constructions", wherein an object complement (a predication that applies to the direct object) can be a non-finite clause.

I don't consider [him] [a fool]. ([ [him] (to be) [a fool] ]
I can't imagine [ [him] [bathing a dog] ] .

I would not venture to argue these one way or another since there is so much disagreement in the field, not to mention confusion in my own mind, about the fine distinctions between these various terms.

CJ

Jasonkhlim · Answer

AlpheccaStarsYour examples are of verbs with a reduced clause as a complement. The verb in the reduced clause has a subject, which comes between the two verbs.

Hello AlpheccaStars.

1. ''I never imagined a dishwashing liquid being used for anything other than washing dishes.''
2. ''I can't imagined him bathing a dog.''
3. ''I don't know if you can picture me holding a huge turtle.''

You mean they are supposed to be like:
1. ''I never imagined a dishwashing liquid that is being used for anything other than washing dishes.''
2. ''I can't imagine him who is bathing a dog.''
3. ''I don't know if you can picture me who is holding a huge turtle.''

CalifJim · Answer

jasonkhlimthey are supposed to be like:

You've got that and who in the wrong place.

I never imagined that a dish washing liquid could be used for anything other than washing dishes.
I can't imagine that he would bathe a dog.
I don't know if you can picture a situation where I am holding a turtle.

CJ

Jasonkhlim · Answer

AlpheccaStarsCatenative verbs are verbs that can be followed directly by another verb

I found a thread.

They said that verb like see& hear are catenative verb too.
Example: ''I saw you talking''

The verb saw does not follow directly by another verb in this example.

Jasonkhlim · Answer

jasonkhlim AlpheccaStarsCatenative verbs are verbs that can be followed directly by another verbI found a thread. They said that verb like see& hear are catenative verb too.Example: I saw you talkingThe verb saw does not follow directly by another verb in this example.

I think I get it now. Verbs like see, watch, hear and others are verb of perception, which means it allows us to add a non finite clause. But what I want to know is is the verb imagine and picture are verb of perception too? Because sometimes I get confused about this verb of perception and gerund possessive.

Example:
1. ''I was pleased with him finishing the report so quickly.'' & ''I was pleased with his finishing the report so quickly.'' any difference? Because most native English speaker would use ''him'' instead of his.
2. ''I can't imagine him bathing a dog.''& ''I can't imagine his bathing a dog.'' Both of these sentences have difference meaning with each other?
3. ''I don't know if you can picture me holding a huge turtle.''& ''I don't know if you can picture my holding a huge turtle.''

any difference too?

How do I recognize verb of perception and gerund possessive?

AlpheccaStars · Answer

jasonkhlim But what I want to know is is the verb imagine and picture are verb of perception too?

I saw him climbing a tree.
I pictured him climbing a tree.
I imagined him climbing a tree.
I visualized him climbing a tree.

There is no real difference in the constructions. They all fall into the same pattern.

I saw him driving a car. (He was in the driver's seat. I never use "his" here.)
His driving scares me. (His driving = the way he drives. I never use "him" here.)

Compare these:
Did you see his erratic driving?
Did you see him driving erratically?

jasonkhlim1. ''I was pleased with him finishing the report so quickly.'' & ''I was pleased with his finishing the report so quickly.'' any difference? Because most native English speaker would use him instead of his.

Either one works, but is somewhat awkward.
''I was pleased with him finishing the report so quickly.'' I was pleased with him because /as / since he finished the report so quickly. (Emphasis on the person.)
'I was pleased with his finishing the report so quickly.'' I was pleased with the act of finishing the report so quickly. (Emphasis on the act. This is less likely.)

Possessive case or Catenative verb?

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