possessive (a picture of him/ a friend of his)

Question

1. A picture of him (=his picture?, a picture that he is included in)
2. A picture of his (= his picture, a picture that belongs to him[he possesses the picture)

3. A frined of him (???????)
4. A friend of his (= his friend)

Q) Is my interpretation for #1~4 correct?
I don't think we say #3, don't we?
Then why #3 is impossible when #1 is possible?

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

moon7296-
2. A picture of his (= his picture, a picture that belongs to him ...)
4. A friend of his (= his friend)

These are the underlying patterns for the standard ways of showing possession that are used for all kinds of nouns.

1. Definite: the X of his ~ the X that he has
2. Indefinite: an X of his ~ an X that he has

But although the 'definite' pattern above (1) can be used with a relative clause, it can't be used by itself.

a. That is the coat of his. No.
b. The coat of his that I like best is the brown one. OK.

So a. is expressed as That is his coat. (And b. is not expressed as His coat that I like best is the brown one.)
_____

The 'indefinite' pattern above (2) can also be expressed as 'one of his Xs'. Thus,

a friend of his = one of his friends

The pattern 'one of his Xs' is usually preferred over 'an X of his'.
'an X of his' is only used with certain nouns, and 'friend' is probably the most often seen in that pattern.
______

So the most frequently seen patterns are these:

1'. Definite: his X
2'. Indefinite: one of his Xs
________________________________________

moon7296-
1. A picture of him (=his picture?, a picture that he is included in)
3. A frined of him (???????)

For nouns of representation, however, there is another pattern.

3. Definite: the X of him ~ the [representation noun] that portrays him
4. Indefinite: an X of him ~ a [representation noun] that portrays him

Examples of representation nouns include photo, photograph, picture, image, drawing, sketch, portrait, and painting.

These patterns are not used for all nouns in general, so combinations like a coat of him, a friend of him, or the cousin of him are not seen.
_______

The 'definite' pattern (3) can also be expressed as 'his X', but in that case there is ambiguity with 1'. Thus, his picture, his drawing, etc. are ambiguous.

We have hung his picture above the fireplace can mean (at least) two different things. It's a picture that belongs to him, or it's a picture that portrays him. (Or it's a picture that was received from him as a gift, and it may or may not portray him.)
__________

By this point in the discussion, you can probably see already that a variant of the 'indefinite' pattern (4) is 'one of his Xs', but that is fraught with the same problems as the variant of (3) ('his X').
_______________________

moon7296Q) Is my interpretation for #1~4 correct?I don't think we say #3, don't we?

Yes, your interpretation is correct. No, we don't say #3.

CJ

Moon7296 · Answer

Hi,

Your maticulous answer is very helpful for me to my question.

I was just wondering how you make such rules. In particular this rule I quote below.

CalifJimThese are the underlying patterns for the standard ways of showing possession that are used for all kinds of nouns.1. Definite: the X of his ~ the X that he has2. Indefinite: an X of his ~ an X that he hasBut although the 'definite' pattern above (1) can be used with a relative clause, it can't be used by itself.a. That is the coat of his. No.b. The coat of his that I like best is the brown one. OK.So a. is expressed as That is his coat. (And b. is not expressed as His coat that I like best is the brown one.)

Do you think up and sort out the rules or quote them? The rules in your answers in this forum are like ones seen in systematic grammar books. I admire your insight.

.

Happy new year^^

Moon

CalifJim · Answer

moon7296Do you think up and sort out the rules or quote them?

I think them up.

However, they're based on a lot of reading, not just on the fact that I'm a native speaker.

Note that we may find a counterexample or two for the rule you quoted, and if we do, we may have to revise the rule. Let me know if you find something that doesn't seem to fit the rule I gave you.

moon7296I admire your insight.

Thank you. It's kind of you to say so.

moon7296Happy new year^^

And a happy new year to you as well. (It's still an hour before midnight here.)

CJ

possessive (a picture of him/ a friend of his)

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