Position of clause- saying that they are

Question

Hello,Sentence A. I obtained the news from the newspaper saying they are the current happenings.Sentence B.  Saying they are the current happenings, I obtained the news from the newspaper.What are the differences between the positions of the underlined words in the first sentence and the second one? I am wondering whether the newspaper was saying or I was saying in the first sentence. Similarly, I am wondering about the sentence.Is it  compulsory to put a comma immediately after 'newspaper' in the first sentence?Are the underlined words called adjective clauses?Does the sentence make any difference if  'that' is added to the underlined words: saying that they are the current happenings?Thank you.With best wishes.

Marius Hancu · Accepted Answer

The first is ambiguous:
I obtained the news from the newspaper saying they are the current happenings. [they're saying .... Adjective (what kind of newspaper)

I obtained the news from the newspaper, saying they are the current happenings. [you're saying ....Adverbial (how did I get??)

Saying they are the current happenings, I obtained the news from the newspaper. [you're saying ... Adverbial (how did I get??
"That" doesn't make any difference here.
Use italics for your examples, as I do.

Bhikkhu1991 · Answer

Hello Marius Hancu,

I greatly appreciate your kind clarification. They are very useful. I apologize I did not mention the first sentence is referring to the newspaper that is saying they are the current happenings.

By the way, I have a question. Do you mean the comma differentiate the adverbial clause from the adjective one? For example, in your first example, there is no comma, so the underlined words, an adjective clause, modifies the newspaper. In other words, a comma is not required immediately after the newspaper in such an adjective clause. I hope my explanation is sufficient.

Thank you.

With best wishes.

Marius Hancu · Answer

> Do you mean the comma differentiate the adverbial clause from the adjective one?
In this case, yes, IMO.

Bhikkhu1991 · Answer

Hello Marius Hancu,

I have recently found out that the English-Zone.com's exercise is similar to my example of the underlined words:

http://english-zone.com/grammar/adj-clz-34.html
3) a)	The rules that allow public access to wilderness areas need to be reconsidered.

b) The rules allowing public access to wilderness areas need to be reconsidered.

The following is my example that is similar to their 3) b) of the underlined words which qualifies as an adjective phrase:

I obtained the news from the newspaper saying they are the current happenings.

Could you please tell me whether your two following explanations are adverbial phrases or clauses?

I obtained the news from the newspaper, saying they are the current happenings. [you're saying ..Adverbial (how did I get??)

Saying they are the current happenings, I obtained the news from the newspaper. [you're saying ... Adverbial (how did I get??

Thank you.

With best wishes.

Marius Hancu · Answer

I just want to tell you that in:

I obtained the news from the newspaper saying they are the current happenings. [they're saying .. Adjective (what kind of newspaper)

I obtained the news from the newspaper, saying they are the current happenings. [you're saying ..Adverbial (how did I get??)

Saying they are the current happenings, I obtained the news from the newspaper. [you're saying ... Adverbial (how did I get??

In the first sentence, as I read it, the "saying" is done by the newspaper. The newspaper said that they are the current ...

In the 2nd and 3rd sentence, the "saying" is done by me (I). I said that they are the current ...

Not sure if this was clear to you.

Bhikkhu1991 · Answer

Hello Marius Hancu,

I fully agree with you on your explanations. My request is whether the last two sentences are adverbial phrases or adverbial clauses. In fact, I have mentioned in my last reply that I got an answer to my first sentence. Since I obtained the news by reading the newspaper, I said the newspaper is saying they are the current happenings. Thus the underlined words, as far as I know, qualifies as an adjective phrase.

As for the second sentence, I do not know whether it is an adverbial phrase or an adverbial clause since you have inserted a comma immediately after the newspaper and indicated that I am saying they are the current happenings. Similarly, in the third sentence, I do not know whether it is an adverbial phrase or an adverbial clause even though you have indicated that I am saying they are the current happenings. In both of these sentences, you only indicated '[you're saying ... Adverbial(how did you get it??) but did specify whether they are adverbial phrases or adverbial clauses.

Your explanations of the last two sentences have supplemented my understanding of the underlined words that refer to I am saying they are the current happenings. However, I would like to request you to specify the adverbial types mentioned by you, that is, whether they are adverbial phrases or adverbial clauses. I would like to let you know as well that I do not know how adverbial phrases and adverbial clauses work yet. Thus your explanations will help me very much.

I apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Thank you.

With best wishes.

Marius Hancu · Answer

HOW did: that is adverb/adverbial, don't you see the question?
WHAT KIND OF: that is adjective/adjectival
This is everything and I won't add more. Read your grammar books. Make some searches at this site for
adjectival
adverbial
(top right Search box)
and read some of the resulting theads.

Bhikkhu1991 · Answer

Hello Marius Hancu,

Thank you for your advice. Your advice has lead to other posts in this forum, and one of them, CalifJim' s reply to Njiksi's thread 'Adverbial clause of time', has referred me to http://www.google.com/ and searched for 'adverbial clause' on the Internet. As a result of having the opportunity to visit other websites as well, I finally found some solutions to my problem of this topic.

According to Richard Nordquist of About.com on the Internet, he taught that the underlined words in the following second and third examples are called participial phrases modifying nouns,I. A participial phrase is flexible, a structure that can be placed at the beginning, middle, or end of a sentence.

The following examples are your replies:

I obtained the news from the newspaper, saying they are the current happenings. [you're saying ..Adverbial (how did I get??)

Saying they are the current happenings, I obtained the news from the newspaper.[you're saying ... Adverbial (how did I get??

In the 2nd and 3rd sentence, the "saying" is done by me (I). I said that they are the current ...

As for your comments, Adverbial (how did I get??, Dictionary.com on the Internet defines 'adverbial' as a word or group of words functioning as an adverb. An adverb is a part of speech that modifies a verb, adjective, or other adverb. Thus, both of the underlined examples are called participial phrases modifying nouns.

By the way, I will attempt to italicize examples to ease your readability. However, I regret to inform you that I will not follow this method of italics in other people's threads and so on because it is not a rule of grammar as far as I know.

Finally, I would like to thank again for your advice. It has improved my learning of English.

Thank you.

With best wishes.

Position of clause- saying that they are

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