Politeness using negative questions

Question

Hi,I have a lot of doubts about negative questions. I know you can use them when you are impatient, complaining, etc: "Can't you just go away?"You can also use them when you are expecting a positive answer: "Don't you have a sister called Amy? I think you do." - "Didn't you buy some yesterday? I think you did."Now the problem is... in Italian we sometimes use negative questions with yet another meaning: it's practically the same as asking a normal question, but you sound a little more polite, because you aren't asking directly for something, but you ask a negative question. In this case the effect is the opposite of expecting a positive answer, because you are now actually expecting a negative one, so you don't sound like you are insisting and you sound a little more polite.My pen doesn't work anymore... Don't you have a spare one for me?This cake is really delicious! ...Can't I have another slice, please?Very interesting. I like your new product. ...By the way, don't you have a brochure?I need some advice, thanks PS: I just realized what I said is not true. We don't always say that in Italian, it depends, only with certain verbs.

Arvsworld · Accepted Answer

"My pen doesn't work anymore... Don't you have a spare one for me?
This cake is really delicious! ...Can't I have another slice, please?
Very interesting. I like your new product. ...By the way, don't you have a brochure?"

There isn't always a parallel or a direct equivalent when comparing aspects and usage of one language to another. But if what you're concerned about is sounding more polite, then I would rephrase:

Would you have a spare pen I can borrow?
May I have another slice of cake?
By the way, would you have any brochures for me to keep?

There are several ways of asking these questions politely.

I'd use May I in place of ~~Can~~ I and Would you in place of Do you.

CalifJim · Answer

My pen doesn't work anymore... Don't you have a spare one for me?
This cake is really delicious! ...Can't I have another slice, please?
Very interesting. I like your new product. ...By the way, don't you have a brochure?

The closest pattern I can think of in English that might just possibly get that shade of meaning across is this:

My pen doesn't work anymore. You wouldn't happen to have a spare one for me, would you?
This cake is really delicious. I don't suppose you'd let me have another, would you?
Very interesting. I like your new product. You wouldn't happen to have a brochure, would you?

The formula is You wouldn't happen to ... or I don't suppose [you'd be able to give me ... / I could have ... / ...], with the appropriate tag question at the end.

These formulas might be considered excessively indirect, timid, and/or self-effacing by any but the most conservative of Americans, but they'll work if you want to be very indirect and polite.

CJ

Kooyeen · Answer

Thank you very much.

I'm pretty confused now, though! After posting, I found some interesting articles on the net, and then I was sure negative questions were used the same way as in Italian.
Yesterday I found out that when you ask a negative question, you suspect you might get a negative answer, even thought you expect and hope to get a positive one.

Mary? Isn't she Mark's friend? => (I think she is) or (I thought she was) - You hope or expect to get a positive answer, but a negative answer is suspected.

And I know you can ask "Wouldn't you like some of these cakes?" - It's an offer, and you use a negative question to sound less direct. A positive answer is expected, but with negative questions there's always room for a suspected negative answer.

Or "I'm working then. Couldn't you postpone the trip till next month?" - This is a request, but negative, to sound less direct. Again, you hope to get a positive answer, but the negative question stresses the possibility of a negative answer.

So I really don't understand why I can't use the examples I first gave... Or something like this, which I'm very likely to say in Italian, and I feel I'd definitely end up saying it the same way in English:

- I'm at Mario's. Why don't we open this bottle of wine already? I need a corkscrew, though... Mario, don't you have a corkscrew here in the kitchen, by any chance?
- Hmm, try to check in that drawer... or that one, yeah.

I feel I really need some advice, because this is something I always do in Italian, and I tend to do the same in English (where "tend" = I already do so, actually)
Thanks a lot

BarbaraPA · Answer

Asking in the negative when you "anticipate" the positive can be seens a "pushy" or arrogant or self-centered. You are assuming that what you want will be given to you, not politely requesting it. That is removed when you use the "you wouldn't happen to have" phrasing as suggested by CJ. It's softened tremendously as well by your "by any chance."

"Can't I have..." sounds like you're saying "I should be able to, and only out of politeness am I pretending that it's really your choice."

"Don't you have..." sounds like you're saying "You darn well should, so if you answer me in the negative, I'm going to know what a loser you are."

Kooyeen · Answer

Aaaargh! Is it really so different in English? I'm going to go crazy if I have to be careful of this difference too. I've never paid attention to this.

GG wrote: >>You are assuming that what you want will be given to you, not politely requesting it.

So do negative questions always sound like you're insisting, or that you think you are right? They sound that way in Italian too, but they also have another meaning, which becomes clear in the right context and with the right intonation.

Meaning 1: Look in that drawer. Don't you have a corkscrew there? (=> I think you have, I saw it there last time)
Meaning 2: Don't you have a corkscrew, by any chance? I'd like to open this bottle. (=> I'm merely asking if you have a corkscrew, sounding indirect, as if it wasn't really important if you have one, because that sounds like I'm ready to get a negative answer)

If you say that you can't be polite with negative questions, then I don't understand this example I read: "I'm working then. Couldn't you postpone the trip till next month?" - Is that not polite? I thought it was given as an example of "politeness", as a way to sound less direct than "Could you postpone the trip till next month?"

Idea! Maybe that only works with modals and with requests, not permissions? So couldn't you, wouldn't you, won't you, can't you... are used for politeness, but can't I, couldn't I, don't you, aren't you... only sound like you're insisting, which is the opposite of being polite?

Thanks a lot again

Kooyeen · Answer

Hi again,
I think you guys are right. maybe now I understand. I just read some stuff on the net about negative questions, plus one of Jim's posts, and this "idea" I had seems the right one:

KooyeenIdea! Maybe that only works with modals and with requests, not permissions? So couldn't you, wouldn't you, won't you, can't you... are used for politeness, but can't I, couldn't I, don't you, aren't you... only sound like you're insisting, which is the opposite of being polite?

Negative questions are possible with modals, but they are not going to sound more polite, but a little less polite instead, because they imply a positive answer is expected and so they actually sound a little more demanding. -> Wouldn't you like a cookie? Couldn't you answer my question?
When there are no modals, a positive answer is still expected, and negative questions are not used to ask a neutral or polite question.

What made me change my mind was an article written by someone who had a non-native (Russian) boss who sounded really rude because of his negative questions, which he thought they were a polite way to ask everything. If I hadn't found out about this, I would have end up like him, LOL.

I still have a problem: I said asking negative questions with modal verbs is still considered "polite", even though it sounds a little bit more demanding (Could you...? ---> Couldn't you...? // Would you...? ---> Wouldn't you...? // etc.)
I'm afraid (but not sure) there are some exceptions.
First exception: not all modals. Can might be an exception (Can you...? ---> Can't you?) and he negative might not be accepted among the "polite" expressions. Can you give me one? ---> Can't you give me one?
Second exception: this might not work with the first person I or we (Can I...? Could I...? ---> Can't I...? Couldn't I?) and the negative wouldn't sound polite anymore. Could I go out? ---> Couldn't I go out?

Sorry if this thread is a mess... this is very different in Italian, and I'd like to avoid sounding rude or annoying someone without wanting to.
Thanks a lot in advance.

BarbaraPA · Answer

Just in case a lot of people are now nervous about sounding rude when they don't mean to, remember that tone of voice will convey more than words themselves ever will.

"Don't you have a brochure?" lifting voice, smiling sound to it, is still nicer than "Do you have a brochure?" in a snarl.

CalifJim · Answer

Mario, don't you have a corkscrew here in the kitchen, by any chance?

On this one in particular, I would leave off the "by any chance". Other than that, given the situation you describe, the negative question sounds fine to me, provided you mean by it that you think there really is a corkscrew in the kitchen. (Maybe you've seen it there before, and Mario knows you've probably seen it there.)

But (and again, without "by any chance") if you're 'flying blind' and have no idea whether there might be a corkscrew in the kitchen or not, this is not the right question to ask. In that case it can sound like you are saying Mario is a fool for not having a corkscrew in the kitchen. Don't you have a corkscrew? You're not very prepared, are you?

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

"I'm working then. Couldn't you postpone the trip till next month?" << To me this one sounds like you're begging -- or whining. This one is the more likely to be heard as being manipulative.
"Could you postpone the trip till next month?" << To me this one sounds like you're being more direct and sincere.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

Can you give me one? ---> Can't you give me one?

This one doesn't strike me as different in principle from the previous one.

Can you give me one?<< direct and sincere request
Can't you give me one?<< manipulative Why can't you? What's wrong with you, you rotten scoundrel?
_____

Could I go out? ---> Couldn't I go out?
Same analysis.

Could I go out? = May I go out?
Couldn't I go out? Please, please, please! I've been very good, Mummy.
______

In all cases, the exact context is going to make a big difference.

-- It doesn't look like your cell phone is working well in here.
-- It isn't, but couldn't I go out to get a better signal? (I really think that would help, but I'm not sure.)
-- Yes, that'll probably solve the problem. (Agreement, as expected.)
______

I think it's safe to say that all negative questions expect agreement from the listener.
So when you're asking permission, it's less direct and more manipulative to phrase the question as a negative; it puts an expectation on the listener (to grant permission) -- which might not be the polite thing to do. It's called being presumptuous. I think this explains the usage for can and could.

CJ

Politeness using negative questions

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