Plural nouns used as adjectives

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Maybe you can answer my question or refer me to someone who can?

Is there a rule that defines the use of plural nouns as non-possessive adjectives? (Veterans Affairs as opposed to Veterans' Affairs.) Can you help?
Sincerely,
Melinda McCrady

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Maybe you can answer my question or refer me to someone who can? Is there a rule that defines the use of plural nouns as non-possessive adjectives? (Veterans Affairs as opposed to Veterans' Affairs.)[/nq]
There doesn't even seem to be a rule about Veterans' vs. Veterans Affairs. Google reveals that some state and national governments use the apostrophe, some don't.
[nq:1]Can you help?[/nq]
The general question was discussed here recently with regard to "women executives." There doesn't seem to be a rule per se, but cases where attributive nouns are plural seem to be in the minority. Best policy is just to follow whichever usage seems to be prevalent.

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[nq:1]Is there a rule that defines the use of plural nouns as non-possessive adjectives? (Veterans Affairs as opposed to Veterans' Affairs.) Can you help?[/nq]
I can give you my rule, and you can do with it as you will.

Attributive nouns (those used like adjectives) are seldom plural.

So, say "woman doctors", not "women doctors". Say "die pouch", not "dice pouch". Say "veteran affairs" or "veterans' affairs", not "veterans affairs". Say "policeman outfit", not "policemen outfit".

You can get away with sports teams, because the singulars are seldom used. Say "Diamondbacks pitcher", if you want. Or "Mercury center". Team name used attributively.

Steve

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[nq:1]Maybe you can answer my question or refer me to someone who can? Is there a rule that defines the use of plural nouns as non-possessive adjectives? (Veterans Affairs as opposed to Veterans' Affairs.) Can you help?[/nq]
As time goes on and people care less and less about correct apostrophe placement, they simply stop using them.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Maybe you can answer my question or refer me to someone who can? Is there a rule that defines the use of plural nouns asnon-possessive adjectives? (Veterans Affairs as opposed to Veterans' Affairs.) Canyou help? Sincerely, Melinda McCrady[/nq]
When used attributively (i.e. like adjectives), nouns are usually singular. This even applies to nouns such as "trousers" which are not normally used in their singular form. E.g. "trouser pocket" and not "trousers pocket".
When the plural is regular, it is rare but not unknown, for the plural to be used. "Spectacles" are commonly called "glasses" and they may be stored in a "glasses case" contrary to the "trouser pocket" example. This may be because "glass case" would suggest a case made of glass.

When the plural is irregular, it is still not normal to use the plural but it is more common.
I have seen this discussed somewhere, I think that it was in one of David Crystal's books. I will try to find a reference.

I am not familiar with "Veterans Affairs" in any spelling. I guess that it applies to war veterans. It may be like "glasses case" where the plural is used since "veteran affairs" may suggest something else. Does your use of capitals signify that "Veterans Affairs" is a proper name? If so, it can do pretty much anything it wants. Se=E1n O'Leathl=F3bhair

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Maybe you can answer my question or refer me to someone who can? Is there a rule that defines the use of plural nouns asnon-possessive adjectives? (Veterans Affairs as opposed to Veterans' Affairs.) Canyou help?[/nq]
In this case, the affairs belong to the veterans, so I'd write "Veterans' Affairs". As "Jess" pointed out, states may officially not use the apostrophe. In those cases I think you should follow their usage.
A good method might be to try the analogous construction with "men('s)", "women('s)", or "children('s)", since the plurals and plural possessives are pronounced differently. A government could conceivably have a department of Children's Affairs (maybe to punish any adults who are involved), but not one of *Children Affairs. So it's possessive.

(This method doesn't necessarily work with the separate "women writers" problem. As Steve MacGregor pointed out, "women writers" exists; however, "*war-veterans writers" obviously doesn't.)

Jerry Friedman

Plural nouns used as adjectives

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