Phrase wording

Question

I heard someone say 'wants' instead of 'wanted' in this phrase. Is it possible, because I thought that 'wanted' was the correct one due to 'knew'?If she only knew what she 'wanted'

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

AnonymousIs it possible

Yes. In fact, both 'wants' and 'wanted' are both possible.

AnonymousI thought that 'wanted' was the correct one due to 'knew'?

Well, 'wanted' would be better with 'knew that ...', but this is 'knew what ...'.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimWell, 'wanted' would be better with 'knew that ...', but this is 'knew what ...'.

Thanks, CJ. Would that change the difference in meaning? If not, is it just a matter of consistency, as you have told me before?

And is, maybe, 'wanted' also better with 'knew what....', due to being consistent in tenses?

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousWould that change the difference in meaning?

This doesn't make sense. I think you mean, "Is there a difference in meaning?"

I believe Mr. Micawber has already answered this for you.

Anonymousjust a matter of consistency, as you have told me before?

I don't remember telling you anything about "knew what", just about "knew that".

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

"If she only knew what she wanted" conditional sentence which indicates that shed does not know what she wants.

"if she only knows what she wants" means that the speaker does not know if she knows what she wants.

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJim I think you mean, "Is there a difference in meaning?"I believe Mr. Micawber has already answered this for you.

Thanks, CJ. You mean his answer to another thread, I think. But the sentence in the other thread had 'wish' and the sentence way slightly different, I think.

Would you mind telling me if there if a difference please?

CalifJimI don't remember telling you anything about "knew what", just about "knew that".

Yes, I was referring to other posts where you taught me that it is best that tenses are consistent where possible, and I thought that here it was a matter of consistency since you said that both 'want' and 'wanted' are correct. Isn't it a matter of consistency?

Many thanks again.

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousThanks, CJ. You mean his answer to another thread, I think.

Correct.

AnonymousBut the sentence in the other thread had 'wish' and the sentence way slightly different, I think.

But it's the same principle.

If she only knew what she wants. (what she wants now, and the speaker seems to know what she wants.)
If she only knew what she wanted. (what she wanted then, in the past, and the speaker seems to know what she wanted.)
If she only knew what she wanted. (what she wants now, but nobody knows what she wants)

AnonymousIsn't it a matter of consistency?

It certainly is in most cases of 'that' clauses after an introductory verb like 'said', 'thought', and 'knew', but in other kinds of clauses you may need to be inconsistent just to get the meaning across. Different events that are all mentioned in the same sentence may have happened at different times, so you need different tenses to express that.

You can't be consistent if you say, "I liked chocolate when I was very young, but now I don't like it". It's a contrast between two different times. You'll make nonsense of the sentence if you put all the verbs in the same tense. You can't go blindly by some imagined "rules"; you have to use your common sense.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimIf she only knew what she wants. (what she wants now, and the speaker seems to know what she wants.)

Thanks. But isn't 'knew' in the past, and shouldn't it take a past tense? If so, how can she know what she wants now?

Why not say: If she only knows (instead of knew) what she wants.

CalifJimbut in other kinds of clauses you may need to be inconsistent just to get the meaning across. Different events that are all mentioned in the same sentence may have happened at different times, so you need different tenses to express that.

Yes, so clauses can differ in consistency, but each clause or event needs to be consistent but the one that follow does not have to be depending on what I want to express, so the consistency is in a single event itself but the following event can use different tenses that are consistence for its specific event, right?

CalifJimYou can't be consistent if you say, "I liked chocolate when I was very young, but now I don't like it". It's a contrast between two different times

Yes, so just like your example here, the first event uses consistent tenses in the past, and the second one consistent tenses for the present. So basically each each event should be consistent but not necessarily the whole sentence, as in your example. Am I correct? I think I am and I hope I am!

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousIf she only knew what she wants. ... how can she know what she wants now?

Don't you know what you want now?

Anyway, it doesn't say she knows what she wants. It implies that she doesn't know what she wants.

AnonymousBut isn't 'knew' in the past, and shouldn't it take a past tense?

'knew' is a past tense form, but after 'if' it implies an imagined present time. It's counterfactual. It says she doesn't know.

AnonymousI liked chocolate when I was very young, but now I don't like it... the first event uses consistent tenses in the past, and the second one consistent tenses for the present. So basically each each event should be consistent but not necessarily the whole sentence, as in your example.

You say the first event uses consistent tenses in the past. This is nonsense. An event doesn't have tenses. The clause does. And you say 'tenses' when there's only one. Further, "consistent" means in agreement, and one thing can't be in agreement. You need at least two things. Then you can say that those two (or more) things are in agreement, i.e., consistent. What you have here is two clauses in one sentence. Each clause has a different tense. Therefore, the tenses are not consistent from one clause to the other. The sentence is inconsistent in its use of tenses, which is OK in this sentence.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJim'knew' is a past tense form, but after 'if' it implies an imagined present time. It's counterfactual. It says she doesn't know.

Oh I see. So with 'if' knew is treated just like the second conditional form, and that's what it's an imagined present time, right?

CalifJimYou say the first event uses consistent tenses in the past. This is nonsense. An event doesn't have tenses. The clause does

I really don't know how to talk in grammatical terms, that's why may be I can't express what I want. I really don't know what words are the exact tenses or how many of them are in a sentence and I really don't know how to tell how many clauses are in a sentence, but I think I have a better idea now.

So what I meant is that each clause in a sentence needs to be in agreement in terms of the words used, like in your example in the first clause 'liked' and 'was' are in the past tense. Is that what you meant by there is only one tense in each clause, which is the past tense in the first and the present tense in the second clause (the word 'like')? I guess what I meant by tenses is that the words 'liked' and 'was' that are both in the past tense, and I was referring to words with the same tense in a clause as tenses.

Am I correct about words being in the same tense in a clause, and a clause should be in general consistent in a tense (present or past as in your example) but a sentence can have various tenses as you said?

CalifJimAn event doesn't have tenses.

Can a single event take more than one clause and therefore, a different tense in each clause?

CalifJimWhat you have here is two clauses in one sentence. Each clause has a different tense

Yes, the first sentence uses a simple past tense (liked and was), and the second uses a present tense (like). Right?
So again I said tenses as in I meant the two words in the first clause, which is in real just one tense, I guess.

What do you think? Have I understood the general picture that in general a single tense, where words are in agreement, should be used in each clause of a sentence, but tenses can differ in different clauses of an entire sentence?

Thanks a lot'
Joe

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimThe sentence is inconsistent in its use of tenses, which is OK in this sentence.CJ

Hi CJ, I have been waiting for your reply but I think you forgot about me. Would you please tell me what you think and confirm if I have understood correctly. Thanks a lot.

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