Perfect with yesterday.

Question

Hello, everyone.Here is a sentence from CGOEL:My question is: whether the discussion is over or not.Personally, I think it is over.I will appreciate your help so much!

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

norwolfHere is a sentence from CGOEL:

We’ve already discussed it yesterday.

It should be We already discussed it yesterday. And the discussion is over.

It is anomalous to use the present perfect ('ve discussed) with an adverb indicating a definite time (yesterday).

CJ

Clive · Answer

Hi,

Here is a sentence from CGOEL:

We’ve already discussed it yesterday.

The Present Perfect refers to the past until now, so you should reword the sentence this way.

We discussed it yesterday.

We have already discussed it .

In every day speaking, we could use your your original sentence, with a pause before 'yesterday'.

ie We’ve already discussed it , yesterday.

My question is: whether the discussion is over or not.

Personally, I think it is over.

The above versions all mean that a discussion started and ended.

However, it's always possible to have another discussion, if people want to.

Best wishes, Clive

Norwolf · Answer

Dear CalifJim.

I copied it from the Cambridge Grammar of the English Language by Rodney Huddleston (P144-145)

I had a hard time reading the description about it by the writer.

Here is the passage:

Past time adjuncts in experiential perfects

This use of the present perfect allows for the inclusion, under restrictive conditions, of a past time adjunct:

[13] i a. He has got up at five o'clock. b. He got up at five o'clock.

ii a. We've already discussed it yesterday. b. We discussed it yesterday.

In [ia] "at five o'clock" is a crucial part of the potentially recurrent situation: the issue is that of his getting up at this early hour; there is no reference to any specific occasion, as there is in the simple preterite [ib]. In [iia] the already indicates that I'm concerned with the occurrence of the situation of our discussing it whithin a time-span up to now and cancels the normally excluding effect of yesterday evident in [iib].

It is difference from the book by Quirk.

And who is correct? Could you tell me, please?

CalifJim · Answer

norwolfAnd who is correct? Could you tell me, please?

Different authors have different opinions. There is no way, when dealing with two very distinguished authors, to say that one is correct and the other wrong. Therefore, no one can tell you who is correct. You are free to form your own opinion.

I completely understand Huddleston's example [ia], within the reading he intends, and I agree with him on that one. I do not, however, understand his point in example [iia]. As a consequence, I can imagine myself generating [ia], but not [iia] in my own speech or writing.

Of the two authors, I believe Huddleston is dealing with much more subtle linguistic phenomena of a sort not often encountered in ordinary, everyday English, so I recommend that you follow the example of Quirk for now.

CJ

Norwolf · Answer

Clive

In every day speaking, we could use your your original sentence, with a pause before 'yesterday'.

ie We’ve already discussed it , yesterday.

Dear Clive, thank you very much. I believe your interpretation is one of the correct!

Norwolf · Answer

CalifJim
norwolfAnd who is correct? Could you tell me, please?
Different authors have different opinions. There is no way, when dealing with two very distinguished authors, to say that one is correct and the other wrong. Therefore, no one can tell you who is correct. You are free to form your own opinion.

so I recommend that you follow the example of Quirk for now.

CJ

Thank you,CalifJim. What you said is pretty advisable!

Perfect with yesterday.

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