Perfect Participle

Question

Can you please tell me the difference in meaning here please? There was no chance of his ever being a friend of mine.There was no chance of his ever having been a friend of mine.Thanks

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

Can you please tell me the difference in meaning here please?

There was no chance of his ever being a friend of mine.

No chance in the future. He would never be my friend at a future time.

There was no chance of his ever having been a friend of mine.

No chance in the past. He was never my friend at a time in the past.

Clive

English 1b3 · Answer

CliveNo chance in the future. He would never be my friend at a future time.

Since ing clauses take their tense from the finite verb, couldn't we say it means no chance in the present (and perhaps in the future)?

Avangi · Answer

English 1b3Can you please tell me the difference in meaning here please?

There was no chance of his ever being a friend of mine. The opportunity never existed in the past.
Edit. I also agree with Clive's analysis of this one. It was determined in the past that he could never be my friend in the future. (I think the word "ever" pushes it into the future.)

There was no chance of his ever having been a friend of mine. Prior to some reference time in the simple past, the opportunity never existed.

Alternately, in the case of unknown identity, at the time of inquiry, it was clear that he had not been a friend. (why does this remind me of another thread?? "Someone I didn't know just called on me.")

There is no chance of his ever having been a friend of mine. Again, this is just a question of identity, not a question of opportunity.

I think "chance" can have more than one interpretation in some of these sentences.

English 1b3 · Answer

Why have you changed is to was, Avangi?

English 1b3 · Answer

I see now that you were just showing another example...

You think 'ever' pushes it into the future. I thought it was determined in the past that he wasn't my friend at that time and into the future. Maybe I'm wrong.

Avangi · Answer

I was responding to your query about the present.

In my opinion, when you're working with so many variables at the same time, you need to be very careful (as opposed to careless) about which tenses and which meanings of which words you're addressing.

People frequently use "friend" to mean "acquaintance."

"Chance" is equally chancy.

Is there a chance that X exists?
Was there a chance that X existed?
Was there a chance that X would (ever) exist?
Will there be a chance that X will exist?
Is there a chance that X has existed?

Is there a chance that X had existed before Y?
Is there a chance that X will (ever) exist?
Is there a chance that this is someone I know?
Is there a chance that this is someone I knew?
Is there a chance that this was someone I knew?

Is there a chance that this is someone I had known before X?
Was there a chance that this was someone I had known before X?

etc., etc.
I had known him for many years, but we had never become friends.
We never had the chance to become friends.
There is no chance in H*** that we'll ever become friends!
There was no chance in H*** that we would ever become friends!

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