Perfect Infinitives

Question

Hello,My grammar book says "we use perfect inifinitives after phrases expressing emotions and feelings:'I'm sorry to have kept you waiting.''She was felt not to have met the standards required.;"I don't think I grasp the connection between using perfect infinitives and emotions and feelings here. Could someone help me out on this? Thank you.

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

The emotion ('sorry', 'felt') happens after the event expressed in the infinitive, and the perfect makes that relationship clear.

SuperESL · Answer

Please correct me if I am wrong:

"She was felt not to meet the standards required." (It was felt that she did not meet the standards required. The sentence does not say anything about how that impression was formed.)

"She was felt not to have met the standards required." (The sentence implies that something specific happened and that it caused the impression that she did not meet the standards required. Perhaps she failed a test)

Thank you.

Mister Micawber · Answer

No, those meanings are not at all right in any way.

She was felt not to meet the standards required." = She did not meet the standards at that time.
""She was felt not to have met the standards required." = She did not meet the standards before that time

SuperESL · Answer

Just to make sure I understand: "She was felt not to have met the standards required" indicates only that she was felt not to meet the standards of some unspecified prior past, but nothing about whether she met the standards at the time when the 'feeling' was done?

A scenario:
Say a certain university first instituted an entrance exam for prospective students in 1940.
Say Mary took the exam in 1970, by which time the exam was quite different from 30 years ago.
Say John made a remark immediately after Mary took the exam that he felt that Mary would certainly not have passed the entrance exam if she had taken it in 1940.
Say the present writer is recounting all this to another person

Are you suggesting that "She was felt (by John) not to have met the standards required" in this context does not say anything about whether she met the standards of 1970?

An alternative scenario:

Say Mary took the exam in May 1970 and failed it.
Say John was telling another person in June 1970 that Mary had failed the test the month before.

Would "she was felt not to have met the standards required" be something that John might have said?

Thank you.

Mister Micawber · Answer

SuperESL"She was felt not to have met the standards required" indicates only that she was felt not to meet the standards of some unspecified prior past,

In the past and possibly as far as up to the present.

SuperESLAre you suggesting that "She was felt (by John) not to have met the standards required" in this context does not say anything about whether she met the standards of 1970?

That remark says nothing grammatically about 1970.

SuperESLWould "she was felt not to have met the standards required" be something that John might have said?

Yes.

SuperESL · Answer

Sorry to be tedious but I really want to pursue this a little bit further.

A scenario:
Say a certain university first instituted an entrance exam for prospective students in 1940.
Say Mary took the exam in 1970, by which time the exam was quite different from 30 years ago.

Say Mary failed the exam.
Say soon afterwards John remarked to someone that "she was felt not to have met the standards required," with no further elaboration on what he meant by it.

Say the present writer is recounting all this to another person

Strictly grammatically speaking, can one say for sure whether the 'standards' John referred to were those of 1940 or of 1970 (though we can tell from the context that he was probably referring to the standards of 1970)? (I am asking because you mentioned that the perfect infinitive can refer to a point in the prior past that could stretch as far as up to the present - if I have understood you correctly).

And if John had instead said "she was felt not to meet the standards required," would it then leave no doubt that he was refering to the standards of 1970 rather than those of any prior year? If that's the case, isn't this rendition clearer than the one containing a perfect infinitive? Shouldn't one reserve the use of the perfect infinitive for cases where one has to refer to a more distant prior past?

Thank you so much for your patience.

Perfect Infinitives

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