Pepper and navel orange question

Question

Making a bulk order of "Dad's pepper sauce" for the young to take away, I'm struck as usual by how many peppers have a rudimentary baby pepper inside. It puts me in mind of the slightly different habit of navel oranges.
What are the proper words for these phenomena?
Mike.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Making a bulk order of "Dad's pepper sauce" for the young to take away, I'm struck as usual by how ... puts me in mind of the slightly different habit of navel oranges. What are the proper words for these phenomena?[/nq]
Fructals?
Matti

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Making a bulk order of "Dad's pepper sauce" for the ... navel oranges. What are the proper words for these phenomena?[/nq]
[nq:1]Fructals?[/nq]
Very nice!
Ontogeny recapitulates ontogeny.

rzed

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Fructals?[/nq]
[nq:1]Very nice! Ontogeny recapitulates ontogeny.[/nq]
Nice, indeed. A sort of infinite ingression.
Mike.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Very nice! Ontogeny recapitulates ontogeny.[/nq]
[nq:1]Nice, indeed. A sort of infinite ingression.[/nq]
"Ontogeny recapitulates ontogeny" didn't sound right when I first read it. Seeing it again as quoted here, I decided to look into it. In The New Shorter Oxford English
Dictionary , under "ontogeny", I find the following quotation:
1 J. B. WATSON The recapitulation theory .. holds.. that ontogeny repeats phylogeny.
That seems more like what I've been used to seeing.

It makes more sense, too, than does "ontogeny recapitulates ontogeny". The point is that the development of an individual organism (ontogeny) tends to go through phases that are reminiscent of the evolutionary development (phylogeny) of the species to which the organism belongs.

I don't remember well any of the details, but I think it has to do with something like a human embryo having a tail and maybe gills at some stages of its development, or a halibut having its two eyes on opposite sides of its head early on.

I don't know what significance "ontogeny recapitulates ontogeny" may have. I suspect it was a thinko.
A confirmation of ontogeny repeating phylogeny with respect to the halibut (a variety of flounder) is at
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/ops/fm/Groundfish/Halibut/biology.htm `
Flounders are compressed laterally and, except in the larval stages, have both eyes on one side of the head; halibut usually are dextral, that is, both eyes are on the right side.
That the ontogeny of the halibut echoes its phylogeny seems to be borne out by the phrase "except in the larval stages".

There's a piece entitled "Is The Human Embryo Essentially A Fish With Gills?" at
http://www.clclutheran.org/rlc/menton96 06.htm . The author seems firmly convinced that "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" is so much hogwash. However, I don't know for sure what other axes he has to grind. I get the impression he may be against evolutionary theory in general. If that is the case, it makes any opinion he expresses about anything highly questionable.
In spite of the author's negative attitude, the discussion seems to provide a good summary of the ideas behind "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny".
At http://bama.ua.edu/~clydeard/bsc383/lecture3.htm , there's a discussion of embryological development that seems on cursory reading to show that there is a sound scientific basis for the statement "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny".

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Nice, indeed. A sort of infinite ingression.[/nq]
[nq:1] I don't know what significance "ontogeny recapitulates ontogeny" may have. I suspect it was a thinko.[/nq]
I'm sure it was deliberate. "Fructal" is a fresh coinage formed by combining "fruct-" (fruit) with "fractal" (a pattern that repeats at ever smaller scales). Therefore a fructal would be an example of ontogeny recapitulating itself (on a smaller scale). In other words, a joke.
-skipka

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1](Is there anyone now posting to alt.usage.english or who has ever posted to alt.usage.english (besides of course the old fellow, himself) who has read more of Mr. Cunningham's postings than I have?[/nq]
Wordy Wordpecker?

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2](Is there anyone now posting to alt.usage.english or who has ... has read more of Mr. Cunningham's postings than I have?[/nq]
[nq:1]Wordy Wordpecker?[/nq]
Is WW a *********?

Charles Riggs
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Pepper and navel orange question

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