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Jackronner Posted 15 years ago
Linguistics Studies
Past subjunctive
I have just read that British english has effectively abandoned the use of the subjunctive.
Perhaps that explains a long-standing question of mine. When describing past events, I believe learned American usage would be: "I insisted he go"; always using the infinitve. Conversely, I've consistently observed otherwise very punctilious British speakers say: "I insisted he went". The British always use the past tense, not the infinitive
The British way can be confusing, however. In the above example, it could be interpreted as a past averment of a prior action, as, perhaps more properly put: "I insisted that he had gone".
Is it true that the British have given up on the subjunctive? It seems to run counter to their usual resolve to preserve the language in the face of deterioration in other parts of the english-speaking world.
Any thoughts?
Perhaps that explains a long-standing question of mine. When describing past events, I believe learned American usage would be: "I insisted he go"; always using the infinitve. Conversely, I've consistently observed otherwise very punctilious British speakers say: "I insisted he went". The British always use the past tense, not the infinitive
The British way can be confusing, however. In the above example, it could be interpreted as a past averment of a prior action, as, perhaps more properly put: "I insisted that he had gone".
Is it true that the British have given up on the subjunctive? It seems to run counter to their usual resolve to preserve the language in the face of deterioration in other parts of the english-speaking world.
Any thoughts?
Top answer
jackronner "I insisted he go"; always using the infinitve Go isn't an infinitive; it's a present subjunctive. jackronner "I insisted he went". The British always use the past tense, not the infinitive Went isn't an indicative past tense; it's a past subjunctive.
- jackronner "I insisted he go"; always using the infinitve Go isn't an infinitive; it's a present subjunctive.
- jackronner "I insisted he went".
- The British always use the past tense, not the infinitive Went isn't an indicative past tense; it's a past subjunctive.
- jackronner Is it true that the British have given up on the subjunctive?
- No.
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5 Answers
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jackronner "I insisted he go"; always using the infinitveGo isn't an infinitive; it's a present subjunctive.
jackronner"I insisted he went". The British always use the past tense, not the infinitiveWent isn't an indicative past tense; it's a past subjunctive.
jackronnerIs it true tha
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"I insisted he go"
My understanding is that I have just insist of him going/leaving. Something that has just happened.
"I insisted he went"
Seems to indicate the event has already taken place in the past and the action had already been taken.
"I insisted that he had gone"
There seem to be a conflict of past and past participle tense in a since statement.
My understanding is that I have just insist of him going/leaving. Something that has just happened.
"I insisted he went"
Seems to indicate the event has already taken place in the past and the action had already been taken.
"I insisted that he had gone"
There seem to be a conflict of past and past participle tense in a since statement.
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Thanks for your reply.
Do you have an explanation for the difference between the American and British usages? Is it indeed that Americans have hewed to the subjunctive and the British abandoned it; or do they simply express it in a different, and I would suppose, more original way.
As for the situation of "I insisted he had gone", it would be someone recounting having insiste
Do you have an explanation for the difference between the American and British usages? Is it indeed that Americans have hewed to the subjunctive and the British abandoned it; or do they simply express it in a different, and I would suppose, more original way.
As for the situation of "I insisted he had gone", it would be someone recounting having insiste
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In my opinion, I think the American English has simplified the language for the rest of the world. It is generally easy to understand and much quicker for anyone to pick up.
British English can be quite tricky, but it retains the beauty of the original language.
British English can be quite tricky, but it retains the beauty of the original language.
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1. I insisted (that) he go.
The underlined part would not be a past subjunctive, but a present subjunctive. A past subjunctive would be e.g.
2. If he were here now, he would do X.
3. If he went now, he would save a great deal of money.
A few years ago, it seemed to me that subjunctive constructions were becoming more common, in BrE (
The underlined part would not be a past subjunctive, but a present subjunctive. A past subjunctive would be e.g.
2. If he were here now, he would do X.
3. If he went now, he would save a great deal of money.
A few years ago, it seemed to me that subjunctive constructions were becoming more common, in BrE (
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