Past Perfect sequencing with Until, Before

Question

Hello Native speakers,I thought I had understood past perfect but these two sentences made me to rethink.'I had not understood the problem (1st action) until he explained it (2nd action)' is very clear. I didn't understand the problem. Then he explained it. I understand it now. The sequence is very clear. But the below sentences are so confusing.Sentence 1: My bicycle got a flat tire before we had gone two miles.As per my understanding, at first my bicycle got a flat tire. Then we didn't even reach two miles. So if I were to rewrite, I would say 'My bicycle had got a flat tire before I went two miles'. But my grammar book says differently.Sentence 2: He had committed himself to the plan before he knew all the facts.As per my understanding, at first he didn't know all the facts. Then he committed himself to the plan. So if I were to rewrite, I would say 'He committed himself to the plan before he had known all the facts'. But my grammar book says differently.Please advice.

Olive file 673 · Accepted Answer

My bicycle got a flat tire before we had gone two miles. This means that we hadn`t even reached a distance of two miles when my bike got a flat tire. The flat tire happened (1st action) before the two miles were reached (2nd action). They did not get very far on their bikes.

He had committed himself to the plan before he knew all the facts. The committing to the plan (1st action) comes before the knowing of the facts (2nd action). So the plan probably failed.

CalifJim · Answer

Deepak Sivaraman pandiI thought I had understood past perfect but these two sentences made me to rethink.

It's easy to see why. Everything seems to be going backwards in sentences like Sentence 1.

My bicycle got a flat tire before we had gone two miles.

Nevertheless, you can have the past perfect in a before-clause. This grammatical pattern signifies the non-completion of the situation in the before-clause (as well as the intention to complete it). The situation in the main clause interrupts the completion of the situation in the before-clause.

Follow the three links in the post below to find more on this topic.

Sentence 2 is normal. He didn't know the facts until after he had committed himself.

1. He committed himself.
2. He knew (found out) all the facts.

Normal order is this:

X AFTER HAD Y.
HAD X BEFORE Y.

Nevertheless, the simple past usually substitutes for the past perfect in these kinds of sentences because the words 'before' and 'after' are sufficient for understanding the time sequence.

CJ

Past Perfect sequencing with Until, Before

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