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English 1b3 Posted 16 years ago
Grammar
Past Perfect--No context
John had hoped to have won the trophy.
Is the past perfect OK here without further context?
Shouldn't we leave out the PP unless there is an overt reference point in the past?
Thanks
Is the past perfect OK here without further context?
Shouldn't we leave out the PP unless there is an overt reference point in the past?
Thanks
Top answer
English 1b3 John had hoped to have won the trophy. Ooph! Overkill.
- English 1b3 John had hoped to have won the trophy.
- Ooph!
- Overkill.
- Why to have won ?
- John had hoped to win the trophy.
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5 Answers
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English 1b3John had hoped to have won the trophy.Ooph! Overkill. Why to have won?
John had hoped to win the trophy.
The past perfect is a dependent tense, yes. All we can say when we see it out of context is that there's probably a story out there somewhere in which it fits. But without context we can only imagine
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Hi,
A sentence like that would only make sense in a context.
If there is no context, the listener will be left with questions that do not just query the use of the Past Perfect.
eg Who is John? What trophy? Why did he have that hope?
The reason for the Past Perfect does not have to be overtly stated, but it needs to be apparent to the listener.
Clive
A sentence like that would only make sense in a context.
If there is no context, the listener will be left with questions that do not just query the use of the Past Perfect.
eg Who is John? What trophy? Why did he have that hope?
The reason for the Past Perfect does not have to be overtly stated, but it needs to be apparent to the listener.
Clive
00
Thanks Clive and CJ
Are you saying that the perfect infin is unecessary because it is clear it happens concurrently with the main verb? Or are you saying it is ungrammatical?
CalifJimWhy to have won?I copied the sentence from a page on owl.purdue discussing perfect infinitives.
Are you saying that the perfect infin is unecessary because it is clear it happens concurrently with the main verb? Or are you saying it is ungrammatical?
00
English 1b3Are you saying that the perfect infin is unecessary because it is clear it happens concurrently with the main verb? Or are you saying it is ungrammatical?Unnecessary and awkward. Not ungrammatical.
CJ
00
The page was discussing how the perfect infinitive is used to show that it happens and is completed before something else (the main verb).
But I can think of counter-examples:
He must have been told off to have cried like that.
But I can think of counter-examples:
He must have been told off to have cried like that.
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