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Systemet Posted 14 years ago
Grammar
Past perfect confusion
Hello!
I've found this book fragment from Game of Thrones. I am a bit confused with Past Perfect usage here.
For example:
"You won't learn anything from me," Jon told him. He had seen little of the dwarf since their journey ended. As the queen's own brother, Tyrion Lannister had been an honoured guest of the Night's Watch. The Lord Commander had given him rooms in the King's Tower-so-called, though no king had visited it for a hundred years and Lannister dined at Mormont's own table and spent his days riding the Wall and his days dicing and drinking with Ser Allister and Bowen Marsh and the other high officers."
My doubts will be marked with bold font, for your convenience
1. since their journey ended - it must be some sort of mistake, right? Why do we have here "ended" instead of "had ended"?
2. Why is it "had been an honoured guest"? That implies he was not an houred guest at that time, right? Which makes no sense, of course.
3. "Jon told him" (so the end of the fragment about his conversation with Tyrion, the dwarf) looks like the starting point to the following paragraph referring to earlier events. So we have ""The Lord Commander had given... though no king had visited" both in Past Perfect, so both things happening before "Jon told him" and then we have "Lannister dined"... "spent his days" and so on again in Past Simple, as if on a par with "Jon told him".
Can you, please, help me understand this usage here? I thought I know PP well, but now I am not so sure.
I've found this book fragment from Game of Thrones. I am a bit confused with Past Perfect usage here.
For example:
"You won't learn anything from me," Jon told him. He had seen little of the dwarf since their journey ended. As the queen's own brother, Tyrion Lannister had been an honoured guest of the Night's Watch. The Lord Commander had given him rooms in the King's Tower-so-called, though no king had visited it for a hundred years and Lannister dined at Mormont's own table and spent his days riding the Wall and his days dicing and drinking with Ser Allister and Bowen Marsh and the other high officers."
My doubts will be marked with bold font, for your convenience
1. since their journey ended - it must be some sort of mistake, right? Why do we have here "ended" instead of "had ended"?
2. Why is it "had been an honoured guest"? That implies he was not an houred guest at that time, right? Which makes no sense, of course.
3. "Jon told him" (so the end of the fragment about his conversation with Tyrion, the dwarf) looks like the starting point to the following paragraph referring to earlier events. So we have ""The Lord Commander had given... though no king had visited" both in Past Perfect, so both things happening before "Jon told him" and then we have "Lannister dined"... "spent his days" and so on again in Past Simple, as if on a par with "Jon told him".
Can you, please, help me understand this usage here? I thought I know PP well, but now I am not so sure.
Top answer
With regard to the primary function of Past Perfect tense: The first occurrence of Past Perfect establishes the time-line, and then Simple Past is used for any further actions/events in the same sentence. "had seen", then "ended". " No other action/event in the same sentence.
- With regard to the primary function of Past Perfect tense: The first occurrence of Past Perfect establishes the time-line, and then Simple Past is used for any further actions/events in the same sentence.
- "had seen", then "ended".
- " No other action/event in the same sentence.
- then the next action/event 'had visited it" occurred prior to "had given him rooms", and so PP must be used to indicate the time-line within that sentence.
- but all other actions/events in the sentence are contemporaneous with the events of 'had given him rooms'' and so the customary Simple Past is used.
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6 Answers
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With regard to the primary function of Past Perfect tense:
The first occurrence of Past Perfect establishes the time-line, and then Simple Past is used for any further actions/events in the same sentence.
"had seen", then "ended".
Next sentence, and the time-line is re-established: "had been an
The first occurrence of Past Perfect establishes the time-line, and then Simple Past is used for any further actions/events in the same sentence.
"had seen", then "ended".
Next sentence, and the time-line is re-established: "had been an
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I have just noticed! You put so much effort in your answer and it probably slipped my mind to answer you. I am too absent-minded. Please accept my apologies for not giving my thanks. And now...thank you very much for explaining that to me.
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systemetHave a good weekend!Weekend?! That answer was over a year ago.
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Yes, I understand, that is why I apologized. My bad 
But I replied before the weekend, so I wanted to wish the guy a good one. I do no
But I replied before the weekend, so I wanted to wish the guy a good one. I do no00
systemetBut I replied before the weekend, so I wanted to wish the guy a good one. I do not understand your confusion?Our forum members come and go. It's not likely that anyone who posted so long ago is still visiting the forum. In all likelihood he will never read what you wrote.
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It is sad to hear His activity on the forum indeed stopped about a year ago - I hope all is well with him!
You are right, it is g
His activity on the forum indeed stopped about a year ago - I hope all is well with him!You are right, it is g
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