past perfect + ago

Question

I have been studying English 4 months. Teaching me that past perfect + ago is erroneous, My Korean English teacher instructed me that I must change [ago] in He told me that he had given the book two weeks ago into [before]. However, another teacher told me that Past perfect + ago is also grammatically correct. The difference between [before] and [ago] with past perfect sentences is that before is "indefinite" and ago is "definite". The point is up to the speaker's state of mind. I'd want to know what is right. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule.

Fivejedjon · Accepted Answer

As the past perfect normally connects a past situation to a later past situation, the time period extends from the earlier to the later past time period, 'Before' (the later time period) is therefore appropriate; 'ago', which works back from the present time is normally inappropriate.

I've used the word 'normally', because I am sure we can come up with some examples in which past perefect + 'ago' works if we try.

Englishmaven · Answer

I am amazed at how fluent you are after a mere 4 months of studying English. Good for you! I am more concerned that there is no indirect object in the sentence. In my examples, I am adding "you" as the indirect object because one is necessary.

"Before" is not indefinite. I'm not sure what is meant by that. Maybe it means that "before" has a particular time reference with it.

The past perfect is a previous past, compared to another verb phrase.

I had called the police before he shot me. (The one past tense occurred before the other past tense.)

We want to use the past perfect when we have a reason to use it. There is no reason to use the past perfect in the sentence as you present it. On the other hand, there is no error in your sentence with "ago." Depending on the context, it could be fine.

I hope you read that book of mine that I had lent to David.
I never got it.
But he told me that he had given you the book two weeks ago.

He told me that he had given you the book two weeks ago. ("He told" is not part of our concern here. "Had given" relates in time to "two weeks ago." The simple past makes the most sense: He told me that he gave you the book two weeks ago.)

CalifJim · Answer

Englishmaven"Before" is not indefinite. I'm not sure what is meant by that.

I'm pretty sure the OP means "ago" is measured from the moment of utterance and "before" is measured relative to some past moment in expressions like the following. (I doubt that full before-clauses have anything to do with the question.)

I had met him four days ago. (literally four days before the day I say this sentence)
I had met him four days before. (four days before some day in the past already established by context)

The question appears to center around whether the first of these is grammatical. As I understand it, your post suggests that you think it's grammatical and useful. (I haven't decided yet myself.)

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

Anonymousinstructed me that I must change [ago] ... into [before].

By the way, 'earlier' will serve as well as 'before' for that purpose.
As an aside, note that brackets are not used as quotes. Your phrase is correctly written as instructed me that I must change "ago" ... into "before".

AnonymousThe difference between [before] and [ago] with past perfect sentences is that before is "indefinite" and ago is "definite".

"definite" ~ measured in "absolute time", i.e., from the moment of utterance
"indefinite" ~ measured in "relative time", i.e., from some previously established point of reference in the past

AnonymousThe point is up to the speaker's state of mind.

I doubt that the various passing moods of the speaker influence his usage much. Rather, it may be a matter of how the speaker understands "ago". The speaker may have an idiosyncratic idea of how to use "ago" based on the way he has heard it used. I tend to agree that "ago" in a sentence with the past perfect is somewhat anomalous.

CJ

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