Past perfect

Question

Hi Everyone,HO HO HO!!!I saw the following sentence whilst reading the news online:' He had earlier told The Associated Press she had been stabilised and was out of the emergency room, but...'Do we really need the word 'had' at the beginning of the sentence? I personally think one past perfect is enough. I've only  pasted the first part of the sentence. The rest is fine.I would write this:He had earlier told The Associated Press she had been stabilised and was out of the emergency room, but ...What do others think?Merry Christmas...CC

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

Cup cakeHi Everyone,HO HO HO!!!I saw the following sentence whilst reading the news online:' He had earlier told The Associated Press she had been stabilised and was out of the emergency room, but...'Do we really need the word 'had' at the beginning of the sentence? I personally think one past perfect is enough. I've only pasted the first part of the sentence. The rest is fine.I would write this:He had earlier told The Associated Press she had been stabilised and was out of the emergency room, but ...What do others think?Merry Christmas...CC

I think it really depends on the context. Could you write the full sentence, please?

Sherpa.

Cup cake · Answer

Hi Sherpa,

Here is the full cut and paste from today's ABC news online:

'He had earlier told The Associated Press she had been stabilised and was out of the emergency room, but later disputed that saying: "It's not fair to say 'stable'. I am not saying she is fine, or not fine."'

What do you think?

CC

Blue Jay · Answer

Your version would work, certainly, but the use of the past perfect makes it clear that the two statements were made at different times.
Merry Christmas to you too!

Cup cake · Answer

Thank you Blue Jay.
Merry Xmas.

CalifJim · Answer

Cup cakeHe had earlier told The Associated Press she had been stabilised

Events in order:

1. She came out of the ER. Supposedly, she seemed stable to him.
2. AP claimed he said, "She's stable. She's out of the ER."
3. He told AP, "I didn't say that. She's not really stable. She's not fine and she's not not fine."
4. The reporter writes the story.

Event 3 is in the past by the time the reporter writes the story, so he puts it in the past: "he" disputed his previous remarks. But something happened before event 3. Event 2 happened. So from the viewpoint of the past event 3, event 2 is past perfect. Thus, "he" had (supposedly) told AP that she was stable before he disputed that he had even said that. And from the point of view of event 2, event 1 is even earlier, so she had come out of the ER and (supposedly) looked stable before he told AP what had happened to her earlier.

By the time you chain all these events together, you've got so many different events at different times that the grammar of English can't handle them all. 3 is in the past. 2 is in the past of the past. 1 is in the past of the past of the past. Once you get to the past perfect, you have to keep going in the past perfect because there is no past of the past of the past (past perfect perfect?) in English.

CJ

Merry Christmas to you, too!

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimShe's not fine and she's not not fine.

not fine < not not fine < fine

Is my understanding of that "fine" modification, well... fine?

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJimpast perfect perfect

Can "past perfect perfect" be 'recast' as "past past perfect"?

Cup cake · Answer

Lol...last two posts are funny.

Thanks CJ. Brilliant as usual.

Jingle bells, Santa spells, grammar all the way
Oh what fun it is to write
On one post every day!

Anonymous · Answer

CalifJim Cup cakeHe had earlier told The Associated Press she had been stabilisedEvents in order:1. She came out of the ER. Supposedly, she seemed stable to him.2. AP claimed he said, "She's stable. She's out of the ER."3. He told AP, "I didn't say that. She's not really stable. She's not fine and she's not not fine."4. The reporter writes the story.Event 3 is in the past by the time the reporter writes the story, so he puts it in the past: "he" disputed his previous remarks. But something happened before event 3. Event 2 happened. So from the viewpoint of the past event 3, event 2 is past perfect. Thus, "he" had (supposedly) told AP that she was stable before he disputed that he had even said that. And from the point of view of event 2, event 1 is even earlier, so she had come out of the ER and (supposedly) looked stable before he told AP what had happened to her earlier.By the time you chain all these events together, you've got so many different events at different times that the grammar of English can't handle them all. 3 is in the past. 2 is in the past of the past. 1 is in the past of the past of the past. Once you get to the past perfect, you have to keep going in the past perfect because there is no past of the past of the past (past perfect perfect?) in English. CJMerry Christmas to you, too!

Shouldn't it be, 'He had told AP that she had been stable before he disputed that he had even said that.'? Or it's optional?

CalifJim · Answer

AnonymousOr it's optional?

It's optional.

CJ

Past perfect

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