Past partcipial vs present participial form.

Question

Hi,I have difficulty choosing between past partcipial and present participial forms when combining two sentences using a participial phrase.For example:The children escaped from the orphanage. Then, they looked for a place they could get some food.Sould it be used with the past participial for as below?The children escaped from the orphanage looked for a place where they could get some food.Or should it be used with the present participial?The children escaping from the orphanage looked for a place where they could get some food.Thanks.

Canadian45 · Accepted Answer

big dreamThe children escaped from the orphanage. Then, they looked for a place they could get some food. You don't need the comma after "Then".
Sould it be used with the past participial for as below?
The children escaped from the orphanage looked for a place ~~where~~ they could get some food.
The chidren that escaped..................food.
The children escaping from the orphanage. looked for a place ~~where~~ they could get some food.

"place where" is redundant.
"escaping from the orphanage" tells us which children looked..............food.

CalifJim · Answer

The first thing you have to determine is the transitivity of the verb.

Transitive verbs may have both forms (-ing or -en, i.e., present or past participles).
Intransitive verbs can only have the -ing form.

escape is intransitive, so a structure like children escaped is not possible (where escaped is a participle).

You will need the second version: The children escaping from the orphanage looked ....

If you want to emphasize that the children's escape was before the search for food, you will need the auxiliary have in its -ing form, and then escaped.

Having escaped from the orphanage, the children looked for a place where they could get some food.

If this is an exercise from a grammar textbook, it's quite likely that the sentence immediately above is the one that is expected.

CJ

Big dream · Answer

CalifJimescape is intransitive, so a structure like children escaped is not possible (where escaped is a participle).

What about using it in the initial position?
Escaped from the orphanage,The children looked for a place where they could get some food.

CalifJimTransitive verbs may have both forms (-ing or -en, i.e., present or past participles).Intransitive verbs can only have the -ing form.

Could you please explain this point more?
Why intransitive verbs can only have the -ing form?

Thanks.

CalifJim · Answer

big dreamWhat about using it in the initial position?Escaped from the orphanage,The children looked for a place where they could get some food.

It doesn't work because of the transitivity issue I mentioned above.

You can't say that someone "escaped the children", but that's what that structure implies.

big dreamWhy intransitive verbs can only have the -ing form?

The terms present and past, when applied to participles, are somewhat of misnomers. They are more like active participles (-ing) and passive participles (-en).

A transitive verb takes an object. An intransitive verb can't take an object.
For example, 'eat' is transitive, and 'sleep' is not. You can "eat the bread", but you can't "sleep the bread" (or sleep anything).

So you can describe bread as 'eaten' (past participle; passive meaning), but you can't describe anything as 'slept' (past participle; passive meaning).

The eaten bread is possible; the slept man is not possible.

CJ

Big dream · Answer

I appreciate you help.

Before you explained the difference between past and present partcipial, I used to choose between them according to the tense of the sentence being changed to participial phrase.

For example, if the sentence is in a present tense, I will choose the present participial and vice versa.

So, the above rule is wrong, and the tense of the sentence being changed to the participial phrase never tells us what participial form to choose.

I fully understand what you have explained in the last post. I want just to confirm my assumption.

Thanks.

CalifJim · Answer

big dreamFor example, if the sentence is in a present tense, I will choose the present participial and vice versa.
So, the above rule is wrong,

That's correct. The rule is wrong. The participle clause has no tense. It takes its tense from the verb in the accompanying main clause.

big dreamI want just to confirm my assumption.

Consider your assumption confirmed.

CJ

Past partcipial vs present participial form.

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