Past forms of gerunds and infinitives?

Question

followings are argues between me and my teacher ;the first lines are my teacher answers and the seconds are my answers(based on a grammar in the end of summit book about Past forms of gerunds and infinitives i insist the second lines are correct)
please help me i asked around many english teachers and all were in doubt.

I was disappointed to be told the news.
I was disappointed to have been told the news.

He risked being fired from his job.
He risked having been fired from his job.

we were delighted to be invited to the wedding.
we were delighted to have been invited to the wedding.

she arranged to be taken to the airport.
she arranged to have been taken to the airport.

Thank you so much for helping me.

Dimsumexpress · Accepted Answer

barazandeh I was disappointed to be told the news. I was disappointed to have been told the news. Both have problems with semantics.

He risked being fired from his job . This one is possible but you need to expand on what he did to cause the risk. ~~He risked having been fired from his job~~. This is gibberish. No one will understand the true meaning of it.

we were delighted to be invited to the wedding. OK, this could mean that you already received the invitation but the wedding is yet to take place. Or, you could be saying this after the wedding. The real meaning is unsure because of the tenses. we were delighted to have been invited to the wedding. Using "were" instead of "are" makes this sentence semantically questionable due to tense conflicts.

she arranged to be taken to the airport. She arranged to have been taken to the airport. Between the two (as written), the first one makes some sense. The second one is clumsy and unidiomatic. But I would reword it this way: She has arranged a ride / pick up to the airport.

Barazandeh · Answer

Hi dimsumexpress ,

Thank you so much for taking time to answer my questions.according to the summit book(grammar booster) .

Gerunds and infinitives have past forms to express actions that occurred in the past:

I appreciate having had the opportunity to meet our overseas colleagues.
They were disappointed not to have met everyone from the jakarta office.
we didnt mind having been delayed so long in paris.
He's surprised to have heard about your resignation.
Now one of those pair answers should be correct since they are in the work book.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

barazandehGerunds and infinitives have past forms to express actions that occurred in the past:I appreciate having had the opportunity to meet our overseas colleagues.
I appreciate having had the opportunity to meet our overseas colleagues. This is fine
They were disappointed not to have met everyone from the jakarta office. This is not in my opinion.
we didnt mind having been delayed so long in paris. " They mind being delayed.. " is what I would say.
He's surprised to have heard about your resignation. This is fine

Hi,
While I agree some of the examples are valid, I have to add that they are not really idiomatically and semantically smooth in my opinion, although they are correct in form grammatically speaking, a couple of them had issues with semantics. My interpretation of English is that, it is not just about what looks grammatical, it also has to sound idiomatic and have the semantic connection. The "having + past participle form" is a complex form of perfect construction which should be used with the cohesive semantics in mind, meaning the appropriate tense, logic, contextual connection.

This one completely goes opposite: They were disappointed not to have met everyone from the jakarta office.
"disappointed not to have ..." is an awkward construction ,even though it may look grammatical.

To express the equivalent meaning, we can use the following options:
" They were disappointed not having the opportunity to meet everyone from....
"They regret that they didn't get the opportunity to meet everyone ....."
" They were disappointed that they didn't get the opportunity to meet....." That's my opinion.

CalifJim · Answer

I was disappointed to be told the news. OK.
I was disappointed to have been told the news. Awkward. Not used.

He risked being fired from his job. OK.
He risked having been fired from his job. No. You can't risk anything after it has already happened.

We were delighted to be invited to the wedding. OK.
We were delighted to have been invited to the wedding. Awkward in the past, but it would work in the present in formal writing, thus:

We are delighted to have been invited to the wedding.

She arranged to be taken to the airport. OK.
She arranged to have been taken to the airport. No. You can't arrange anything after it has already happened.

Note the difference in the types of verbs. to be disappointed and to be delighted are reactions to things that have already happened. But to risk and to arrange have to do with the future. These latter types of verbs don't go with indicators of the past like to have been ... or having been ....

CJ

Dimsumexpress · Answer

CalifJimNote the difference in the types of verbs. to be disappointed and to be delighted are reactions to things that have already happened. But to risk and to arrange have to do with the future. These latter types of verbs don't go with indicators of the past like to have been ... or having been ...

As always, thank you Jim for the enlightenment.

I just knew some of them sounded like " finger nails on the chalk board", but I couldn't really come up with the right words for explanation. How do you do that!

CalifJim · Answer

dimsumexpressHow do you do that!

Magic!

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

1. Actually, I believe your sentence is correct and the teacher's is wrong. The first sentence is unusual, depicting as it does, a kind of instantaneous snapshot in time: at some point in the past you were told the news and were at that instant disappointed by the news. Typically, this kind of instantaneous response in past time is not depicted in English.

Your sentence presents a more realistic situation: at some point in the past you were told the news and after that (not instantaneous at that time) you felt disappointed by that news.

2. The teacher is correct here. "Having been fired" means the firing has already been completed, so the person cannot be at risk for firing.

3. Both sentences are correct. Since a wedding invitation is sent by mail, there is nothing "rushed" about a response to it, and thus for all practical purposes the two sentences have the same sense, with yours being more formal in tone.

4. The teacher is correct. "To have been taken to the airport" means that the action has been completed, thus the person cannot be arranging for it to occur.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Anonymous1. Actually, I believe your sentence is correct and the teacher's is wrong. I was disappointed to have been told the news.
"To have been taken to the airport"

I can't imagine how anybody with good language skills would say something like this.

Barazandeh · Answer

Thank you so much guys especially dimsumexpress which have spent much more time to make it clear to me
and dear CalifJimNote because of his simple and solid answers also he reminded me how important capitalization is in english.
My understanding of this kind of grammar is, it is somehow difficult for English learner and not much practical in real word.Therefor it is better for me
and those who are not native speakers to avoid using such grammar unless we manage to master it.

Now that i understand that there are some native speakers on this site and they are willing to help
,I do pose my questions here confidently;I will recommend this site to those my classmates who are interested
to improve their english.

Here is the answer of another native guy from Baltimore for those follow these posts:

"I was disappointed to be told..." - this is "informal", but it is perfectly alright in spoke English (indicates that the "telling" was very close in time to the feeling of disappointment to which you refer)
"I was disappointed to have been told..." - this is more formal, but again it is perfectly alright (indicates that the "telling" occurred some time before the feeling of disappointment, which seems to be persisting for some amount of time)

'He risked being fired..." - this is a good English sentence
"He risked having been fired..." this is not a good English sentence: "having been" indicates that he had already been fired, so he could not "risk" it at the point in the past to which we refer. Maybe "He had risked being fired..." would be a better sentence.

"We were delighted to be invited to..." - this is a good English sentence (indicates that the feeling of delight occurred very close in time after the invitation)
"We were delighted to have been invited to..." - this also is a good English sentence (indicates that the feeling of delight occurred some time after the invitation)

"She arranged to be taken to..." - this is a good English sentence
"She arranged to have been taken to..." this is not a good English sentence. This sentence would make people shake their heads and give you a blank look: they would not understand this, it would not make sense to them.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

barazandehHere is the answer of another native guy from Baltimore for those follow these posts:"I was disappointed to be told..." - this is "informal", but it is perfectly alright in spoke English (indicates that the "telling" was very close in time to the feeling of disappointment to which you refer)

The problem I have with this sentence is not so much tense related as semantics. In general, when someone is disappointed, it is because something did not happened as he expected. I think it would make good sense If the context were: " I was disappointed that I wasn't among the invited/ she picked John to go to the ball with her.. However, someone told you something and for that you are disappointed? That's makes no sense.

Past forms of gerunds and infinitives?

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Gerunds and infinitives have past forms to express actions that occurred in the past:

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