participial phrase without a comma?

Question

In these circumstances, sport psychologists work with athletes helping them to cope with the stressful situations they inevitably encounter in competitive sport and to identify and acheive levels of arousal that are optimal for their sport tasks.

Q) Is "helping them...." part a participial phrase whose internal structure or meaning is thought to be like #1? (i.e. concurrent event)
1. In these circumstances, sport psychologists work with athletes as they help (or while they help) them to cope with ....

Q2) Or is it just like -ing structure just like the verb spend?
1. I spend too much time watching television

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

moon7296like the verb spend?

In my judgment, it is like the verb spend. The psychologists don't work with athletes while they help them. Their work with athletes consists in the fact that they help them. Stated differently, there are not two distinctly different things going on at the same time. Instead, the one thing that is going on has two different descriptions: working with them; helping them.

CJ

GPY · Answer

CalifJim moon7296like the verb spend?In my judgment, it is like the verb spend. The psychologists don't work with athletes while they help them. Their work with athletes consists in the fact that they help them. Stated differently, there are not two distinctly different things going on at the same time. Instead, the one thing that is going on has two different descriptions: working with them; helping them.CJ

Do you see any difference in meaning between these two:

Sport psychologists work with athletes, helping them to cope with ...
Sport psychologists work with athletes helping them to cope with ...

?

The point of this is that "I spend too much time, watching television" is not possible.

CalifJim · Answer

GPYDo you see any difference in meaning between these two

If you're addressing this to me, no. And I'm not following. That is, I don't see what it seems you want me to see about your examples. I wasn't basing anything I posted on comma placement.

CJ

GPY · Answer

CalifJimThat is, I don't see what it seems you want me to see about your examples.

As I understand it, you said you thought "sport psychologists work with athletes helping them to cope ..." was analogous, in the relevant respect, to "I spend too much time watching television". However, I cannot see any difference in meaning between "sport psychologists work with athletes[,] helping them to cope ..." with or without the comma (I wondered whether you could). If there is no difference, then the fact that "I spend too much time, watching television" does not work seems to suggest that the structures are not analogous after all.

CalifJim · Answer

GPYI cannot see any difference in meaning between "sport psychologists work with athletes[,] helping them to cope ..." with or without the comma (I wondered whether you could).

Hmmm. Subtle point. I guess I'd say that it's not a matter of a difference in meaning, but that there is no reason to put a comma there in either case.

... work with athletes helping them to cope ...
... spend time watching television

If someone accidentally puts a comma in the longer one (the 'athletes' sentence) it's a little more difficult to see that it's unnecessary, so it's not as disturbing to see it as when we see it in the shorter sentence. And then, the use of a non-structural comma simply to indicate a breath pause seems more appropriate in a longer sentence, so the comma goes unnoticed.

There are very few cases, I'd say, where the presence, or absence, of a comma actually changes, the meaning. A lot of unnecessary, or misplaced, commas, simply, distract the flow, for the reader. The more frequently the commas occur (comma-to-word ratio), the more noticeable they become. So it's easier to see that the comma is unnecessary in the shorter sentence. Even so, adding a comma doesn't change the meaning. (We spent time, watching television.) It just makes it harder to read.

In any case, I think the two participle clauses work the same semantically—or maybe I should say structurally.

"helping them cope ..." IS the work with athletes.
"watching television" IS spending time.

And I think that was the main point of the OP's question.

CJ

GPY · Answer

You may be right that it is of no importance or relevance. Nevertheless, personally I cannot really accept We spent time, watching television, whereas in the other case the comma seems natural and even desirable.

Fivejedjon · Answer

GPYYou may be right that it is of no importance or relevance. Nevertheless, personally I cannot really accept We spent time, watching television, whereas in the other case the comma seems natural and even desirable.

I agree.

CalifJim · Answer

GPYNevertheless, personally I cannot really accept We spent time, watching television

Well, I don't like it either, but I had the impression that you were claiming that the following two sentences had different meanings, and I don't think they do. Faulty punctuation, in my opinion, only rarely changes the meaning.

We spent time, watching television.
We spent time watching television.

CJ

GPY · Answer

CalifJimWell, I don't like it either, but I had the impression that you were claiming that the following two sentences had different meanings, and I don't think they do.

I think they have a slightly different emphasis potentially, but the emphasis in the version with the comma is not viable because it is not natural to just say "we spent time".

participial phrase without a comma?

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