Parenthetical expression?

Question

Hi. I have a question about a phrase that bothers me. Here is the complete sentence: "My mother was telling me the other day about her stepbrother, who I didn't even know existed." It's the last part of the sentence that I'm curious about. First, I don't think the sentence is grammatical. However, if it is, the "I didn't even know" couldn't be a parenthetical expression could it, because removing the phrase takes away all meaning from the sentence?
Anyway, I'm thinking the sentence should go something like "My mother was telling me the other day about her stepbrother, whose existence I wasn't even aware of," even though that sounds a little stilted. Thanks for any insight here.
-sj

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Hi. I have a question about a phrase that bothers me. Here is the complete sentence: "My mother was telling ... stepbrother, whose existence I wasn't even aware of," even though that sounds a little stilted. Thanks for any insight here.[/nq]
It sounds like good, plain English to me. If you must parse it, it comes out an inversion of "I didn't even know he existed," the inversion that happens with "who."

Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)

Usenet · Answer

Dear panetto,
I'd agree that it's unexceptional English on the basis that it parses according to regular patterns. You yourself saw this and perchprism made the pattern explicit. But I'd also agree that there's something fishy here.
As to what exactly is fishy, I can't say. But let me run this past you.

I'd suggest that you'd find the sentence less awkward if you replaced the "know" with "realize". And I'd also suggest that you'd find the sentence (slightly) less awkward if you dropped the "even".

If these are true... As to why the first change might bring the sentence more in line with your sense of good English, it's surely at least partly to do with this: the sentence is more likely to be interpreted as syntactically complete after "know" than after "realize". If you're listening to the sentence, you might think it finishes with "know" and then you hear the "existed". A potential reason the sentence jars, then, is that the hearer is forced to step back and readjust: they were initially expecting subject + object full stop, but instead they get final clause.
As to why the second change (simply dropping the "even") might make the sentence less awkward, I think it's got something to do with how long people are prepared to wait for the completion of syntax and sense.

There are other reasons the sentence might be regarded as awkward, and why you asked the question in the first place, but I think those two are important ones...
Regards,
VI

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]It sounds like good, plain English to me. If you must parse it, itcomes out an inversion of "I didn't even know he existed," the inversion thathappens with "who."[/nq]
After thinking about this some more, perchprism, I am convinced that you are right. I think I was being a bit overanalytical. "I didn't even know" would definitely be a parenthetical expression here. One lesson I'll take home from this is that removing a parenthetical expression may alter the meaning of a sentence and make it sound awkward, but will still leave it grammatically intact. Thanks for your input.
-sj

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I'd suggest that you'd find the sentence less awkward if you replaced the "know" with "realize". And I'd also suggest ... regarded as awkward,and why you asked the question in the first place, but I think those two are important ones...[/nq]
Thanks for your incredibly perceptive and detailed post, VI. It was most helpful. I agree with everything you wrote, and now I have a much better understanding of why this sentence raised my eyebrows in the first place.

-sj

Usenet · Answer

That's not correct. No-one here said it was a parenthetical expression - plenty of words or groups of words can alter the meaning of a sentence in removal without being parenthetical.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]After thinking about this some more, perchprism, I am convincedthat ... will still leave it grammatically intact. Thanks for your input.[/nq]
[nq:1]That's not correct. No-one here said it was a parentheticalexpression - plenty of words or groups of words can alter the meaning of asentence in removal without being parenthetical.[/nq]
It seems that it most likely is a parenthetical expression. See the article http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Speech/0020.htm and scroll down to "Parenthetical Expressions." As far as altering the meaning of a sentence, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. The removal of a parenthetical expression usually does not alter the meaning of a sentence, or at least not that much.

Parenthetical expression?

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