out the window

Question

A. I came across such a sentence in a novel:

He looked out the window.

Shouldn't it be "He looked out of the window?" Is it fine to omit OF in the sentence? Is it commonly used in conversation?

Can I say," I walk out the door," or "She is falling out the tree?"

B. We walk from the upper level of the room to another room off its far end. Roy opens the door and we enter the room. A bathroom is off to one side.

a. What's off its far end mean?

b. What's off mean in the sentences above? Could u give me some examples?

Many thanks for your answering.

Clive · Accepted Answer

Hi,

A. I came across such a sentence in a novel:

He looked out the window.

Shouldn't it be "He looked out of the window?" Is it fine to omit OF in the sentence? IT's OK. Is it commonly used in conversation? Sometimes 'of' can be omitted. It's rather idiomatic, sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. My advice is that you should just include 'of'.

Can I say," I walk out the door," Yes or "She is falling out the tree?" No, sounds odd.

B. We walk from the upper level of the room to another room off its far end. Roy opens the door and we enter the room. A bathroom is off to one side.

a. What's off its far end mean? Simply put, one room is adjacent to another, and there is a door. The far end is the end thatis farthest away from you.

b. What's off mean in the sentences above? Could u give me some examples?

Best wishes, Clive

Pastsimple · Answer

As for question A:

It should be

He looked out the window.

I walked out the door is correct as well.

Out of would change the meaning dramatically:

You would say I walked out of the door if you were a ghost living in the door and walked out from the inside of the door.

On the other hand, you say I walked out of the house or I ran out of the room. The reason: windows and doors are actually "holes", not closed spaces with boundaries like rooms and houses.

And no, you can't say She is falling out the tree. You probably mean She is falling off the tree. She was on the tree, now she's falling off it. On vs. off. Quite simple.

EDIT: Missed Clive's post. Well, I'd hesitate to say that the omission of "of" is idiomatic at all. See my post. More details in Lindstromberg's English Prepositions Explained.
EDIT#2: What's off mean in the sentences above? Could u give me some examples? I could:

Example #1:

| High Street
| <post office>
|
---------------------- Park Road ---------------

You can find a/the post office in High Street (off Park Road).

Example #2:

--------
| lawn | dog
--------

The dog is sitting off the lawn. (i.e. not on the lawn)

Anonymous · Answer

The dog is sitting off the lawn.

Actually as a native speaker, this sentence sounds weird to me. I would say

The dog is not sitting on the lawn.

pastsimple's explanation for what "out of" means seems simple enough until we get to:

She is falling out of the tree.
She is falling off the tree.

Both of these are ok, and trees are not holes like windows and doors.

I think i would agree with Clive that "of" is idiomatic in these constructions.

Pastsimple · Answer

AlienvoordThe dog is sitting off the lawn. Actually as a native speaker, this sentence sounds weird to me. I would say The dog is not sitting on the lawn. pastsimple's explanation for what "out of" means seems simple enough until we get to: She is falling out of the tree. She is falling off the tree. Both of these are ok, and trees are not holes like windows and doors. I think i would agree with Clive that "of" is idiomatic in these constructions.

Well, I'm afraid you might have misread my post. Since tree is not a "hole", you correctly used out of, Alienvoord. I said out without of was for "holes".

I'm still sure that out vs. out of is by no means idiomatic.

P.S. "Hole" is my term. "Aperture" is used in the book I recommended.

Aperisic · Answer

A. He looked out the window.

Shouldn't it be "He looked out of the window?" Is it fine to omit OF in the sentence? Is it commonly used in conversation?

Well, well you made a mixture of two, didn't you.

look out of the window is not the version of look out of, i.e. it is not look out of without of

look out the window is look+[out the window]

You look? Where? Out of window.

Q. Did you look out the window? A. Yes, sir. Q. And was the window closed when you looked?

But...

look out of the window is [look out]+[of the window]

Q. Did you look out of the window? A. Yes, sir. Q. And what did you see when you looked out?

By the way, look out the window is far more frequent than look out of, the reason could be that

you looked out the window means you only looked through the window

you looked out of the window means you looked through the window to try to find something

What is confusing is that a very small speech pause (') you make at the same position

you looked (') out the window

you looked (') out of the window

MINEFIELD

If a phrasal verb has a form verb+out+of you cannot easily remove of and keep the same meaning: fly something out of something is fine, but fly something out is just fly something out, there is no second object afterwards. knock something out of somebody is always knock something out of somebody means force something from someone, knock out somebody means sometimes similar, but still a different thing.

END OF MINEFIELD

Can I say," I walk out the door," or "She is falling out the tree?"

Obviously from above if you wanted to say I walk out of the door there should be a phrasal verb walk out and there is. Yet, walk out means to leave, and you can't leave a door, can you, you can only leave the meeting.

I walk out of the meeting. In this case you can say without of only I walk out in hurry.

again I walk out the door is I walk+[out the door] it is not, not, not, not and not I [walk out] the door.

out in "She is falling out the tree?" is better be replaced with off as others said here as well "She is falling off the tree?" and then it sounds fine.

"She is falling out the tree?" means either she cuts the tree and makes it looking sad with branches going down, or she was a friend with the tree and now stops being a friend.

B. We walk from the upper level of the room to another room off its far end. Roy opens the door and we enter the room. A bathroom is off to one side.

Unfortunately I have to stop here because I think you meant of not off and other people explained it better if you have of instead.

[It is very frequent in this forum for people to confuse two things that looks almost the same (like to as a preposition and to for a particle in the infinitive) and it is strange that actually it is never that easy to explain the problem so that the material could be used in a more general sense. Though, I have to admit, if I had somebody explaining to me these stuffs people are explaining each other here, however simple some of them may look, my struggle with the language would have been far easier.]

Anonymous · Answer

You're right pastsimple. My mistake.

Now Aperisic has got me so confused.

He looked out the window.
He looked out of the window.

As Clive says, these mean the same thing.

Aperisic · Answer

AlienvoordYou're right pastsimple. My mistake. Now Aperisic has got me so confused. He looked out the window. He looked out of the window. As Clive says, these mean the same thing.

Similar so much that it is veeeeeeeeery confusing.

If you want to understand what is the problem it is better to observe

walk out and walk out of case

look out and look out of are indeed veeeery similar in meaning because when you look out the window you usually want to see something - you want to look out of the window. But I am not talking here about the meaning as Clive did, I am talking about the origin. look out is not a short version of look out of, as much as walk out the door is not a short version of walk out of the door

If you want to understand this particular look out case anyone here has explained it to you, so ignore what I said, but if you do not want to make mistake in any other similar case take your time and try to understand what I told you here.

look out something and look out of something are exception in the sense that other cases where you have verb+out+something and verb+out+of+something are far from being that similar in meaning as in case of look

I know it is maybe hard to see, but if you search for other verb+out+something and verb+out+of+something cases you will understand what I said. DO NOT use look out and look out of to make any more general rule. You'll be confused.

Clive · Answer

Hi,

I don't want to add any general comments to this long discussion. I just want to add a very brief idiomatic note about trees.

She is falling off the tree. She was on the tree, now she's falling off it. These sentences are far from natural.

Natural would be She is falling out of the tree. She was in (or 'up in') the tree, now she's falling out of it .

{And no, to be in a tree does not mean that the tree trunk has grown around you! The context makes the meaning clear.}

Best wishes, Clive

Pastsimple · Answer

CliveHi,

I don't want to add any general comments to this long discussion. I just want to add a very brief idiomatic note about trees.

She is falling off the tree. She was on the tree, now she's falling off it. These sentences are far from natural.

Natural would be She is falling out of the tree. She was in (or 'up in') the tree, now she's falling out of it .

{And no, to be in a tree does not mean that the tree trunk has grown around you! The context makes the meaning clear.}

Best wishes, Clive

Hi Clive,

How many times have I heard and used "up in the tree"? Many times, yet I've tried to apply "logic" and made a fool of myself

.

As I pointed out elsewhere ( ), trees are not surfaces (nobody has commented on it, though). A treetop may very well be viewed as a space with a boundary, just like a room in a house. Sort of a "prison" cell made of branches. And you can be in a kitchen/prison cell, not on a kitchen/prison cell. The same for trees/treetops.

All in all, I do in fact agree with every word you've said in your last post. Except one: idiomatic.

If something can be logically deducted, I don't call it idiomatic.

Your humble apprentice,

Pastsimple

Aperisic · Answer

Clive
Hi,

I don't want to add any general comments to this long discussion. I just want to add a very brief idiomatic note about trees.

She is falling off the tree. She was on the tree, now she's falling off it. These sentences are far from natural.

Natural would be She is falling out of the tree. She was in (or 'up in') the tree, now she's falling out of it .

I thought this was a basic forum but not this is general one... to make clear the Clive's message

A leaf falls off the tree... because it was attached to the tree first
A man falls out of the tree... because he was climbing to the tree
A bird falls out of the tree.. because it was in the nest
A picture falls off the wall... any guess?

Why is it that birds dont fall off the tree when they sleep?... only because we may have an idea that a bird is attached to the tree while it sleeps; otherwise it is not correct.

out of out of the scope, the area, the space

off from, opposite from on (attached on)

out the window

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