Other than I

Question

I know some will say that it's ok to violate old rules, or whatever. I'm really not interested in that position.
"..or there would have to be someone other than I doing the ordering."
I'm interested in confirming that "someone" is a predicate nominative, and that "other than" is a conjunction, which is followed by the same case as what precedes it. Not a prepostion that is followed by the objective case.
Thus, I'm interest in confirming that "I" is correct in traditional English.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

Usenet · Accepted Answer

Once upon a 3/2/04 9:17 AM, in the land of
(Email Removed), the good witch "meirman" from (Email Removed) told the whole world all about how:
[nq:1]I know some will say that it's ok to violate old rules, or whatever. I'm really not interested in that position. "..or there would have to be someone other than I doing the ordering." I'm interested in confirming that "someone" is a predicate nominative,[/nq]
Yes.
[nq:1]and that "other than" is a conjunction, which is followed by the same case as what precedes it.[/nq]
I can't see how this can be the case. A conjunction would require a clause to govern, and there is no such clause here, only the word "I". "doing the ordering" modifies "someone", and there is no way to expand "I" into a clause. "I am" would be the logical expansion, but it makes no sense. "There would have to be someone, other than I am, doing the ordering." "Instead of" could substitute for "other than", and that certainly can't be followed by "I" according to traditional grammatical rules.

In the traditional "than is a conjunction" arguments, we have examples like "he likes here more than I", where "I" can be expanded to "I do" or even "I like her".
[nq:1]Not a prepostion that is followed by the objective case.[/nq]
I think that's exactly what it is.
[nq:1]Thus, I'm interest in confirming that "I" is correct in traditional English.[/nq]
I cannot provide such.
[nq:1]s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response. Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years[/nq]
Carmen L. Abruzzi

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]"..or there would have to be someone other than I doing the ordering." I'm interested in confirming that "someone" is ... prepostion that is followed by the objective case. Thus, I'm interest in confirming that "I" is correct in traditional English.[/nq]
"I doing the ordering" is a subordinate clause of degree, adverbial in nature, equivalent to "other than I (am) doing the ordering" in sense and force, and introduced by a conjunction. The form as given is classically correct.

Usenet · Answer

Conjunction: The part of speech that serves to connect words, phrases, clauses, or sentences.
[nq:1]"doing the ordering" modifies "someone", and there is no way to expand "I" into a clause.[/nq]
No, it's a word, and I think "other than" is a conjunction that connects it to "someone".
[nq:1]"I am" would be the logical expansion, but it makes no sense. "There would have to be someone, other than ... like "he likes here more than I", where "I" can be expanded to "I do" or even "I like her".[/nq]
Right, so "than" is a conjunction and "other than" must be sort of the opposite of it (but still a conjunction), sort of like nor is sort of the opposite of "or", or "but" is in some way the opposite of "and".
[nq:2]Not a prepostion that is followed by the objective case.[/nq]
[nq:1]I think that's exactly what it is.[/nq]
I still think it is a conjunction. "Other than" is not in the usual lists of either, but "than"
[nq:2]Thus, I'm interest in confirming that "I" is correct in traditional English.[/nq]
[nq:1]I cannot provide such.[/nq]
Thanks, anyhow.
Checking online AHD4 says for "than", "prep. Usage Problem

In comparison or contrast with: could run faster than him; outclassed everyone other than her. "
The trouble is that "everyone" is the object of outclassed, so of course "her" sounds correct. So I'm not convinced.

They also call it a usage problem, but I can't find anywhere they go into it. The usage note on the same page discusses other stuff. Www.dictionary.com - than .
I didn't expect a listing for the two word "other than" but it has one in which it says it can be a preposition
Or an adjective. ' "all parts of the house other than the windows were in good condition"; "apparently took no clothes other than those he was wearing"'
I don't think it is an adjective! What kind of clothes? Other than clothes. What kind of windows? "other than the windows" or "other than the windows he was wearing". That's unbelievable. It's not an adjective.
And there example for a preposition is indistinguishable from their example for adjective: "Other than one sister, she has no close relatives." Just move the clause and get 'she has no close relatives other than one sister.' and this example is just like the ones in which they say it is an adjective.
They don't want to say it but it's a conjunction.
And look what they have for "rather than".
[nq:1]rather than conj. And not: â??Gibson guitars with their carved tops and necks that are fitted and glued to the body, rather than bolted on are expensive to makeâ? (Joshua Rosenbaum).[/nq]
If "rather than" can be a conjunction, so can "other than". Right?
[nq:1]prep. Instead of: â??diseases in which the immune system plays the villain rather than the protectorâ? (Sandra Blakeslee).[/nq]
I think "rather than" is a conjunction here to, but since the form of the sentence makes calling it a preposition, they do so.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

Usenet · Answer

Once upon a 3/3/04 3:25 PM, in the land of
(Email Removed), the good witch "meirman" from (Email Removed) told the whole world all about how:
[nq:1]Conjunction: The part of speech that serves to connect words, phrases, clauses, or sentences.[/nq]
Hmm, OK.
[nq:2]"doing the ordering" modifies "someone", and there is no way to expand "I" into a clause.[/nq]
[nq:1]No, it's a word, and I think "other than" is a conjunction that connects it to "someone".[/nq]
Well, if there is a conjunction, it's "than", not "other than", and it links "other" to "I".

No, not "other than clothes", "other than those". "Clothes other than those he was wearing". "Other than those he was wearing" modifies "clothes".
[nq:1]What kind of windows? "other than the windows" or "other than the windows he was wearing".[/nq]
What? Are you trolling? It's "parts of the house" that is being modified by the adjectival force of "other than the windows".
[nq:1]That's unbelievable. It's not an adjective.[/nq]
It has adjectival force, in that it modifies a noun. Just as a simple prepositional phrase governed by "in" can have adjectival force in a statement like "the boxes in the front room". Which boxes? The boxes in the front room . It's a prepositional phrase and a floor wa... and an adjective. Imagine.
[nq:1]And there example for a preposition is indistinguishable from their example for adjective: "Other than one sister, she has no ... other than one sister.' and this example is just like the ones in which they say it is an adjective.[/nq]
It's both. Or rather, the prepositional phrase functions as an adjective. Or at least, it does what an adjective does. The preposition is "other than" the adjective is "other than one sister".
[nq:1]They don't want to say it but it's a conjunction.[/nq]
So, when the dictionary doesn't agree with you, they just "don't want to say it"?
~~snip~~

Carmen L. Abruzzi

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]"I doing the ordering" is a subordinate clause of degree, adverbial in nature, equivalent to "other than I (am) doing the ordering" in sense and force, and introduced by a conjunction. The form as given is classically correct.[/nq]
Except for two things.
1) I think you mean "other than I (is) doing the ordering". Not "(am)", sincethe person doing the ordering is someone*. Someone other than I *is doing the ordering.
2) In English (and Latin), the subject of non-finite verbs (such as "doing") isproperly in the objective case. Him marry my daughter? Her hitting her dog really bothers me. So it should be "me" rather than "I".

\P. Schultz

Usenet · Answer

(snip)
[nq:1]2) In English (and Latin), the subject of non-finite verbs (such as "doing") is properly in the objective case. Him marry my daughter? Her hitting her dog really bothers me. So it should be "me" rather than "I".[/nq]
I would take your "Her" to be a possessive, not an object. Change the gender and "His hitting" reads much better than "Him hitting", although I admit the latter form is often heard in colloquial speech.

Odysseus

Usenet · Answer

No, it links "someone" to "I". Someone...other than...I.
[nq:2]Right, so "than" is a conjunction and "other than" must ... is an adjective! What kind of clothes? Other than clothes.[/nq]
[nq:1]No, not "other than clothes", "other than those".[/nq]
"Other than" is an adjective modifying "those"??? Other than those???
[nq:1]"Clothes other than those he was wearing". "Other than those he was wearing" modifies "clothes".[/nq]
But what would "other than" be in that phrase?
[nq:2]What kind of windows? "other than the windows" or "other than the windows he was wearing".[/nq]
[nq:1]What? Are you trolling? It's "parts of the house" that is being modified by the adjectival force of "other than the windows".[/nq]
I don't think so and I'm not trolling. I don't know about "adjectival force", and I'm interested in "other than", not "other than the windowss" because the example came from a dictionary entry for "other than". And because in my original sentence at the top, "other than I" doesn't have adjectival force afaict, and I don't believe it can modify "doing the ordering".
But even if it could, that doesn't answer the question of whehter it was "other than I" or "other than me">
[nq:2]That's unbelievable. It's not an adjective.[/nq]
[nq:1]It has adjectival force, in that it modifies a noun. Just as a simple prepositional phrase governed by "in" can have adjectival force in a statement like "the boxes in the front room".[/nq]
In this case it is prepositional phrase that is ajectival modifying boxes. "In" is a preposition, clear and simple. Now what is "other than"?
[nq:1]Which boxes? The boxes in the front room . It's a prepositional phrase and a floor wa... and an adjective. Imagine.[/nq]
So what is "other than". The entry I cited said it was an adjective, not that phrases that use it can be adjectives.
[nq:2]And there example for a preposition is indistinguishable from their ... the ones in which they say it is an adjective.[/nq]
[nq:1]It's both. Or rather, the prepositional phrase functions as an adjective.[/nq]
They said that "other than" was an adjective. Not "other than the windows" or "other than the clothes he was wearing".
[nq:1]Or at least, it does what an adjective does. The preposition is "other than" the adjective is "other than one sister".[/nq]
But their example for preposition is indistinguishable from their example for adjective. Both are about "other than". None is about a prepositional phrase, if "other than one sister" were a prepositional phrase.
[nq:2]They don't want to say it but it's a conjunction.[/nq]
[nq:1]So, when the dictionary doesn't agree with you, they just "don't want to say it"?[/nq]
When what they do say makes no sense.
[nq:1]~~snip~~[/nq]
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"I doing the ordering" is a subordinate clause of degree, ... by a conjunction. The form as given is classically correct.[/nq]
[nq:1]Except for two things. 1) I think you mean "other than I (is) doing the ordering". Not "(am)", since the person doing the ordering is someone*. Someone other than I *is doing the ordering.[/nq]
Yes, but that person is someone other than (who) I am. Parse, don't guess.
A fuller explanation of this common usage, and its historical derivation, can be found in Curme, English Grammar , under "Adverbial Clauses", and in particular at 87.A.2 ("Following a Comparative").
To make it simple, consider "Someone taller than I/me is doing the ordering" surely there can be no doubt which case the pronoun is in. In the original example, the orderer is not "taller than" but "other than", but otherwise the construction is quite parallel.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"..or there would have to be someone other than I ... interest in confirming that "I" is correct in traditional English.[/nq]
[nq:1]"I doing the ordering" is a subordinate clause of degree, adverbial in nature, equivalent to "other than I (am) doing the ordering" in sense and force, and introduced by a conjunction. The form as given is classically correct.[/nq]
Someone's kidding here -a subordinate clause of degree without a finite verb? In any case, where is the sense of degree?
Bigger than I am, smarter than she is, more recent than this was - but other than? Where is the comparative?
The -er of other? Oh yea!
Trying to "force" the group of words to become a clause by inserting (am) just doesn't work since it obviously does not make sense.

Bigger than I (am), smarter than she (is), but other than I (am)? No way, in this context!
Someone's kidding here.
LauriF
It should be "me"
Even trying to "force" the group of words to become a clause by inserting (am)
doesn't work because "other than I am doing the ordering" doesn't make sense.
It should be "me".

Usenet · Answer

Once upon a 3/4/04 8:49 PM, in the land of (Email Removed), the good witch "Odysseus" from (Email Removed) told the whole world all about how:
[nq:1](snip)[/nq]
[nq:2]2) In English (and Latin), the subject of non-finite verbs ... bothers me. So it should be "me" rather than "I".[/nq]
[nq:1]I would take your "Her" to be a possessive, not an object. Change the gender and "His hitting" reads much better than "Him hitting",[/nq]
I don't know about how it reads, but "him hitting the dog" certainly sounds far better than "his hitting the dog".
[nq:1]although I admit the latter form is often heard in colloquial speech.[/nq]
Carmen L. Abruzzi

Other than I

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