Origin of "neither rhyme nor reason"

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Does anyone know the origin of/meaning of the phrase "neither rhyme nor reason"Mary

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Does anyone know the origin of/meaning of the phrase "neither rhyme nor reason" Mary[/nq]
I have always heard it "without rhyme or reason". Googling that version, the Jewish World Review provides the following:

"There are several stories behind "rhyme or reason.'' We begin with an apocryphal one.
Legend has it that an aspiring author took his manuscript to Sir Thomas More, then the chancellor of King Henry VIII, and asked for More's opinion of it. The well-respected author of "Utopia'' looked at the work, then asked the would-be writer to turn it into rhyme. He did so and again submitted it to Sir Thomas. More's response? "Ay, ay, that will do. 'Tis rhyme now, but before it was neither rhyme nor reason.''
Not only does this tale reflect well on the man for all seasons, but it makes a great story about the origin of the phrase "rhyme or reason.''
Unfortunately, it's not true. Although "rhyme or reason'' (meaning "good sense or reason'') first appeared in print in the 15th century, the century of More's birth, we can't credit that wise and witty gentleman with the coinage.
But it is likely that the origins of the phrase do owe something to bad poetry. Because a piece of badly rhymed verse is at best distracting and at worst nonsensical, French speakers said such poor poetry was "sans rime ni raison'': literally, "without rhyme or reason.'' Many educated English speakers of past centuries were also fluent in French, and they simply borrowed the translated version of the phrase into their native tongue. It must have been a good idea, since "rhyme or reason'' (and its negative version, "neither rhyme nor reason'') still remain popular today."

Usenet · Answer

Tony Cooper filted:
[nq:1]But it is likely that the origins of the phrase do owe something to bad poetry. Because a piece of ... been a good idea, since "rhyme or reason'' (and its negative version, "neither rhyme nor reason'') still remain popular today."[/nq]
Is there anything useful in the fact that the phrase echoes "time and season" (or perhaps it's the other way round)?...there's a song on one of the Smothers Brothers' albums that actually rhymes the two phrases (with all the nouns pluralized), and I've always considered it pretty clever..r

Origin of "neither rhyme nor reason"

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