Origin of "Every medal ..."

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Where does the proverb "Every medal has two sides" come from? Did medals have a beautiful and an ugly side in earlier times?Jochen

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[nq:1]Where does the proverb "Every medal has two sides" come from? Did medals have a beautiful and an ugly side in earlier times?[/nq]
I'm not familiar with the "medal" proverb. I know it as "there are two sides to every coin." People speak of "the other side of the coin" when they want to look at something from the opposite point of view. I think that either side of the coin can be the positive or negative one. I never thought that the coin itself figured into it except insofar as it's a familiar object that has only two sides, but I'm sitting here prepared to stand corrected on that count.

Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)

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[nq:1]Where does the proverb "Every medal has two sides" come from?[/nq]
From the Italians, apparently. I'm not familiar with it, but I find that it is in the Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs :
Every medal has its reverse.

1603 Montaigne (Florio III xii 164). Ogni medagalia he il suoriverscio: Each outside hath his inside, saith the Italian.
1669 Torriano no. 81. Every medall hath its right side and itswrong.
(Snip 1842 and 1908 (Churchill) citations.)
It looks like Montaigne tried to translate the proverb by means of another proverb instead of literally.
[nq:1]Did medals have a beautiful and an ugly side in earlier times?[/nq]
If it was a well-known proverb, that might be an easily answered question, but as it stands, I imagine you'd have to check with archaeologists or collectors. I can imagine that in early technology, it would have easy to stamp one side of a coin and leave the other blank.

Best Donna Richoux

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In our last episode, (Email Removed), the lovely and talented Jochen Lueders broadcast on
alt.usage.english:
[nq:1]Where does the proverb "Every medal has two sides" come from? Did medals have a beautiful and an ugly side in earlier times?[/nq]
It is not a proverb I know in American English. The saying is "there are two sides to every coin." This means, so far as I know, nearly the same as "There are two sides to every story," or in other words, that things may seem quite different from nother perspective. Something and something else "are two sides of the same coin" expresses a somewhat opposing view: that things which seem very different or even opposing are but different manifestations of the same thing.

Lars Eighner (Email Removed) http://www.io.com/~eighner/ Great authors are admirable in this respect: in every generation they make for disagreement. Through them we become aware of our differences. Andre Gide

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Google offers 272 hits for "Every medal has two sides." Most of them seem to be related to amazon.com or they originate in various locations on the Euro-asian land mass. Medals are rarely beautiful except in their symbolism or precious metal content. Therefore, I would argue that the relative pulchritude of one side versus the other is not in question when using that idiom. Usually when one is awarded a medal, it is for doing something not many others could have done. The saying could mean that even though one's soul is scarred for eternity by a certain event, one gets to have some rounded metal on a pretty ribbon to symbolize other people's recognition for one's deeds. On one side is the glory and respect, on the other side is the requisite sacrifice.
The saying could also mean that perhaps one had to kill 38 people to save one of one's buddies from the enemy. The heroism and loyalty balance out the 37 life deficit. See? There are two sides to every medal. It seems to be more context-specific than the "coin" version.
Mike

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[nq:1]Every medal has its reverse. 1603 Montaigne (Florio III xii 164). Ogni medagalia he il suo riverscio: Each outside hath ... 1908 (Churchill) citations.) It looks like Montaigne tried to translate the proverb by means of another proverb instead of literally.[/nq]
I wouldn't try to guess what citation of an Italian saying in an English translation of Montaigne, who wrote in French and died 9 years before the reported date, tells us about Montaigne's use of language. I suppose that the reference "Florio III xii 164" refers to Montaigne's Essais , book 3, chapter 12, published in 1580.
More from his Essais but not common in books of quotations: "Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." "Philosophy is doubt."
"Stubborn and ardent clinging to one's opinion is the best proof of stupidity."
"I speak truth, not so much as I would, but as much as I dare; and I dare a little more as I grow older."

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[nq:1]Where does the proverb "Every medal has two sides" come from? Did medals have a beautiful and an ugly side in earlier times?[/nq]
I thought medals and coins had three sides: the obverse, the converse, and the reverse.

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[nq:2]Every medal has its reverse. 1603 Montaigne (Florio III xii ... the proverb by means of another proverb instead of literally.[/nq]
[nq:1]I wouldn't try to guess what citation of an Italian saying in an English translation of Montaigne, who wrote in ... that the reference "Florio III xii 164" refers to Montaigne's Essais , book 3, chapter 12, published in 1580.[/nq]
1603 Montaigne - Essays of Michael Lord of MontaigneTranslated by John Florio. References are to Temple Classics edition, 6 volumes.
A bit of info on John Florio:
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Biographies/MainBiographies/F/florio /florio.html
[nq:1]More from his Essais but not common in books of quotations: "Nothing is so firmly believed as that ... much as I would, but as much as I dare; and I dare a little more as I grow older."[/nq]
Best Donna Richoux

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[nq:2]Every medal has its reverse. 1603 Montaigne (Florio III xii ... the proverb by means of another proverb instead of literally.[/nq]
[nq:1]I wouldn't try to guess what citation of an Italian saying in an English translation of Montaigne, who wrote in ... that the reference "Florio III xii 164" refers to Montaigne's Essais , book 3, chapter 12, published in 1580.[/nq]
The medaglia is to be found in book 3, chapter 11.

In Montaigne's French http://www.bribes.org/trismegiste/es3ch11.htm and in Florio's English
http://www.uoregon.edu/%7Erbear/montaigne/3xi.htm
It's interesting to notice that Florio translates Montaigne's Latin or Italian quotations into English. Montaigne does not provide us with any French translation of the Italian proverb.

Isabelle Cecchini
'What sort of woman is she? Has she her wits about her?' 'She's French, sir,'replied Martin succinctly.
/Trent's Last Case/, E. C. Bentley

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[nq:1]Where does the proverb "Every medal has two sides" come from? Did medals have a beautiful and an ugly side in earlier times?[/nq]
I believe the idiom is more common with "coin" than "medal". There is a cluster of similar catch phrases: "that's a two-sided coin", "both sides of the coin", and so forth.
I'm afraid I have no information on origins, though.

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://oakroadsystems.com/
"Don't move, or I'll fill you full of (... pause ...) little yellow bolts of light." Farscape, first episode

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[nq:1]I can imagine that in early technology, it would have easy to stamp one side of a coin and leave the other blank.[/nq]
According to , this was indeed done at one time. I suspect that this would have changed fairly soon, as the flat side would be easier for people to shave a bit of precious metal off without leaving obvious damage.
Mark Brader "If cars were designed the same way as software is Toronto today, they'd all have buggy-whip holders..." (Email Removed) Marcus J. Ranum

Origin of "Every medal ..."

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