organic compounds

Question

Hello everybody. I have several questions concerning these sentences.

1. Should it be parafins or paraffins?

2. What is the correct term for organic halogenic compunds?

3. Is disintegrated fine?

4. Is the last part of the sentence ok?

Olephins are connected to oxygen and they become stabile compounds, parafins and naphtens. Organic halogenic compounds are completely disintegrated, and the resulting anorganic salts (NH4Cl) are removed by rinsing with water.

Alan.es · Accepted Answer

1. Should it be parafins or paraffins? - parafin is a fuel used in heating stoves; paraffins are a group of chemical compounds and should be used in this sentence.

2. What is the correct term for organic halogenic compunds? - Organic halogen compounds

3. Is disintegrated fine? -yes

4. Is the last part of the sentence ok? - yes, when I started work, many years ago now, I was bemused as to how you can wash and rinse a liquid but it is possible.

Corrected version :

Olefins are reacted with oxygen and they become stable compounds, paraffins and napthenes. Organic halogen compounds are completely disintegrated, and the resulting inorganic salts (NH4Cl) are removed by rinsing with water.

Kajjo · Answer

AntonijaOlephins are connected to oxygen and they become stabile compounds, parafins and naphtens. Organic halogenic compounds are completely disintegrated, and the resulting anorganic salts (NH4Cl) are removed by rinsing with water.

My suggestion:
Olefins are oxygenated to form stable compounds, paraffins and naphthenes. Halogenated organic compounds decompose entirely and the resulting inorganic salts (NH4Cl) are removed by rinsing with water.

My comments:
"Halogenated organic compounds" are organic compounds containing halogen atoms.This is a fixed chemical term. "Organic halogen compounds" is sometimes used, too.

The passive "is reacted with" sounds wrong or at least unusual for me, "Olefins react with" would be normal. Better just to name the reaction correctly: "Olefins are oxygenated..."

"disintegrate" might be OK, but chemically it is usually called "decompose".

NH4Cl is called ammonium chloride, if you want to avoid the ugly formula in the text.

Kajjo

Alan.es · Answer

It depends, as always, how much you want to stay close to the original text,or rewrite.

Kajjo - your suggestion is certainly more elegant chemically speaking than mine..

"Olefins are oxygenated to form stable compounds, paraffins and naphthenes. Halogenated organic compounds decompose entirely and the resulting inorganic salts (NH4Cl) are removed by rinsing with water."

The only query I have is about the use of 'oxygenated'. You're probably much more up-to-date than I am but doesn't this mean that oxygen is added across the double bond of the olefin so making alcohols rather than paraffins and napthenes.

The follow-on would be that 'oxidised' is not correct because hydrogen is added to the double bond to form saturated paraffins and napthenes.

What do you think? - or am I wrong in thinking this is what 'oxygenated' means?

Kajjo · Answer

Alan.esThe only query I have is about the use of 'oxygenated'. You're probably much more up-to-date than I am but doesn't this mean that oxygen is added across the double bond of the olefin so making alcohols rather than paraffins and napthenes. The follow-on would be that 'oxidised' is not correct because hydrogen is added to the double bond to form saturated paraffins and napthenes. What do you think? - or am I wrong in thinking this is what 'oxygenated' means?

Yes, I share your doubts regarding the chemistry mentioned here! As you stated, it depends on how close we want to stay with the original text -- I did not intend to correct the chemistry, but only the language describing it.

Chemistry:
"Olefins reacting with oxygen" might produce all kinds of compounds, depending on the conditions and catalysts used, e.g. alcohols, aldehydes, acids, peroxides, epoxides and so on. Adding hydrogen is reduction, removing hydrogens to form higher unsaturated compounds is oxidation.Thus, here it might be much better from the chemical point of view to write "Olefins are oxidised to form...". Oxidation is a much broader concept than just adding oxygen.You are right, naphthenes and paraffins do not contain oxygen.

However, the original sentence was "olefins are connected to oxygen" and this can be pretty good replaced by "are oxygenated", i.e. oxygen atoms are introduced into the molecule.What the author really wants to say, I do not know, nor does Antonia -- hopefully the author does.

Antonia, probably you should take the blue phrase above.

Kajjo

Alan.es · Answer

If you use 'olefins are oxidised to form paraffins and napthenes', It's a completely incorrect statement chemically. They are clearly reduced by the simple definition of adding hydrogen.

The catalytic reforming process definitely uses oxygen.That is why I think that the sentence needs to be something like :

Olefins mixed with oxygen are passed over a catalyst to form stable compounds, paraffins and naphthenes. Halogenated organic compounds decompose entirely and the resulting inorganic salts (NH4Cl) are removed by rinsing with water.

Antonija · Answer

Thank you both for your time and will to tackle this text with me.

Kajjo · Answer

Alan.esIf you use 'olefins are oxidised to form paraffins and napthenes', It's a completely incorrect statement chemically. They are clearly reduced by the simple definition of adding hydrogen. The catalytic reforming process definitely uses oxygen.That is why I think that the sentence needs to be something like : Olefins mixed with oxygen are passed over a catalyst to form stable compounds, paraffins and naphthenes. Halogenated organic compounds decompose entirely and the resulting inorganic salts (NH4Cl) are removed by rinsing with water.

Dear Alan, yes, so far I agree.
reduction = removing oxygen, adding hydrogen, saturating double bonds (alkene + H2 -> alkane; aldehyde + H2 -> alcohol)
oxidation = addition of oxygen, elimination of hydrogen, forming double bonds
A conversion of olefins and aromatics to n-alkanes, iso-alkanes and cycloalkanes is a reduction. The typical reductive hydrocracking process uses an excess of hydrogen and surely no oxygen is present! Steam-cracking on the other hand does not produce paraffins and naphthenes, but an excess of olefins.

However, "mixing with oxygen" or the original "connecting with oxygen" does not sound like a reductive process!
Maybe we need more context to fully understand which process is discussed here or the author has mxied up his chemistry.

Kajjo

Alan.es · Answer

I must admit that I wondered what was happening withe oxygen but if you have alook on Google the modern processes do use oxygen in the isomerisation/cracking proceses, particularly in the hydrodesulphurisation process.

I think it's part of the translator's dilemma as to how to translate accurately but not change the meaning of the original text. I'm concerned that we're getting quite close to rewriting the author's text and changing his chemistry, whether he's right or wrong.

That's why I went back to something like Antonija's translation of the original version.

Kajjo · Answer

You are right, Alan. We should try to stay as close to the original text as possible -- however, Antonija should be aware of our chemical doubts.

For the sake of Antonija I summarise:

1) "connected to oxygen" is almost surely wrong, because neither paraffins nor naphthenes contain any oxygen. Further, this phrase is not typical in chemical processing

2) However, we have no good substitute because we do not know what the author really wants to say.

I have one further suggestions:
"In the presence of oxygen, olefins are transformed into stable compounds, paraffins and naphthenes."

Kajjo

Alan.es · Answer

OK by me.

We'd better leave it there because Antonija may well be very confused by now.

This is our final version :

Olefins, in the presence of oxygen, are transformed into stable compounds, paraffins and naphthenes. Halogenated organic compounds decompose entirely and the resulting inorganic salts (NH4Cl) are removed by rinsing with water.

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