Order of adjective

Question

Hi.I am asking about the order of adjectives.Which one is correct or is better?Columns with surface transverse cracksColumns with transverse surface cracksI would be grateful if you could tell me the reason for such a choice.Regards

Sbolton · Accepted Answer

I can tell you that it should be the second one:

Columns with transverse surface cracks

I started thinking though, and realized I could not give an explanation for why. So I looked for rules on the matter and here is a link that explains it pretty well, I think.

http://www2.elc.polyu.edu.hk/CILL/exercises/adjectiveorder.htm

Okay, so transverse would fit loosely into the shape category, and surface fits into the nouns used as adjectives category.

I hope this is helpful.

-S

Innertide · Answer

Hi,

It seems as if the second one sounds more natural , I take that words of material and origin come last.

however I've found at times that the order of descriptive words is not entirely fixed.

Hamed

Hrsanei · Answer

Thanks Sbolton and thanks Hamed for your responses.

Canadian45 · Answer

hrsaneiHi.I am asking about the order of adjectives. Which one is correct or is better?
columns with surface transverse cracks

columns with transverse surface cracks

The above are not sentences, so there is no reason to capitalize the 'c'.

At first glance, "transverse surface cracks" sounds correct, but this question can be much more complicated than it first appears.

If you are saying "transverse surface cracks", as opposed to 'transverse deep cracks', you mean that "surface" is more important than "transverse", and that's why "surface" would come immediately before "cracks".

But imagine a technical situation in which you could detect both surface and deep cracks and also detect transverse and vertical cracks in columns. If your main concern is transverse cracks, both surface and deep, you would say "surface transverse cracks", indicating that "transverse" is more important than "surface".

So this is not the same adjective-order situation as in 'a big red ball'. In our situuation, the most important adjective comes immediately before the noun.

Of course in everyday situations, "transverse surface cracks" would be more commonly said. And that's why it sounds (more) correct.

CalifJim · Answer

hrsaneiWhich one is correct or is better?
Columns with surface transverse cracks
Columns with transverse surface cracks

The second is what you want. surface is a complement; transverse is an adjunct. Complements are always closer to the governing word (cracks in this case) than adjuncts are.

CJ

Canadian45 · Answer

"complement", "adjunct"

Is that where English is going?

Whatever happened to 'adjectives'?

Both "surface" and "transverse" can serve as adjectives, and the order should be determined by the intended meaning. And that depends on whether one is primarily talking about surface cracks or transverse cracks.

CalifJim · Answer

surface is actually a noun even though it modifies cracks.

Apparently you can make your mind interpret transverse as a complement and surface as an adjunct. That doesn't work for me. In my mind I see that something cracks the surface (complement) in the transverse direction.

I could see superficial transverse cracksas a possibility, though.

CJ

Canadian45 · Answer

CalifJimsurface is actually a noun even though it modifies cracks. Yes, I know that "surface" is a noun. But I will remind our students that in English, nouns very often act as adjectives.
house builder, fire alarm, winter coat, etc

Apparently you can make your mind interpret transverse as a complement and surface as an adjunct. No, I am actually not paying any attention to "complement" and "adjunct". I am just going with the fact that it is extremely common for nouns to function as adjectives.

That doesn't work for me. In my mind I see that something cracks the surface (complement) in the transverse direction. Actually, "transverse" is also listed as a noun in the dictionary, but of course it is primarily an adjective.

I could see superficial transverse cracks as a possibility, though. CJ
Again, I am focussing on the intended meaning, whether the main adjective is "surface" or transverse". And semantically, the main adjective should immediately precede the noun "cracks".

HopefullyI will have nothing more to say on this thread.

Order of adjective

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