operation

Question

My friend's asking about surgery scars after I take my bandages off.

I say:

I wouldn't have done it, if that would've been the outcome. Or

I wouldn't have done it, if that was the outcome.

Is this okay to say? The surgeries been done, but bandages are still on.

Thanks!

Fivejedjon · Accepted Answer

I wouldn't have gone through (with) it / done it if I'd (= had) thought that that would be the outcome/result.
I wouldn't have gone through (with) it / done it if that would have been been the outcome/result.

DMW · Answer

Fivejedjon, are you sure?

Fivejedjon · Answer

DMWFivejedjon, are you sure?

I am sure about the first sentence
I am not 100% sure about: I wouldn't have gone through (with) it / done it if that would have been the outcome/result.

I tried several versions out in my mind. My thinking was that that version conveyed a similar message to ... if that was going to be the result. I rejected ... if that would be the result, because I thought that would be natural only after I had seen the scars. Having thought about it even more, I think my rejection was probably unjustified.

I still think that I might say the version I produced, but if anyone can provide a good reason why it's unacceptable, and/or produce a better version, I'll be happy.

PreciousJones · Answer

fivejedjon DMWFivejedjon, are you sure?I am sure about the first sentenceI am not 100% sure about: I wouldn't have gone through (with) it / done it if that would have been been the outcome/result.I tried several versions out in my mind. My thinking was that that version conveyed a similar message to ... if that was going to be the result. I rejected ... if that would be the result, because I thought that would be natural only after I had seen the scars. Having thought about it even more, I think my rejection was probably unjustified.I still think that I might say the version I produced, but if anyone can provide a good reason why it's unacceptable, and/or produce a better version, I'll be happy.

Is that would've been been the outcome a typo? Are there supposed to be two beens? I've never seen or read that anywhere before.

Thank you guys!

Fivejedjon · Answer

PreciousJonesIs that would've been been the outcome a typo?

Sorry. It was a typo. I have now deleted one 'been' in the original.

DMW · Answer

My version of the second sentence is:
I wouldn't have gone through with it if that had been the outcome.

but then, I particularly loathe clauses that begin with "if" and contain "would have". In my opinion, if you're talking about a condition in the past, you should always use "had" with "if", not "would have".

Of course, I accept that there is regional variation here. I believe that the "if / would have" construction is common in some parts of the United States. So I can't call it categorically wrong. I am just strongly prejudiced against it.

Fivejedjon · Answer

DMWMy version of the second sentence is:I wouldn't have gone through with it if that had been the outcome.but then, I particularly loathe clauses that begin with "if" and contain "would have". In my opinion, if you're talking about a condition in the past, you should always use "had" with "if", not "would have".

In a straightforward counterfactual past, I agree: I wouldn't have survived the operation if Dr Killemoff had been the surgeon.

Dr Killemoff was not the surgeon, and I did survive. As a speaker of Br I consider that ... if Dr Lillemoff would have been the surgeon is incorrect.
...............................................................................................................................................................................................

However, in the sentence under discussion, we have a different situation. If his friend says, before the operation, "The outcome will be scars", our patient, at the time, can be imagined as thinking: (1) I will not go through with this if the outcome will / is going to be scars, or, (2) I would not go through with this if the outcome would / were going to be scars.

In that particular situation, I think that will in (1) and would in (2) are at least as likely as a present tense (1) or a past tense (2). The situation in the if-clause, is not the antecedent in time (as it is in traditional conditional clauses*), but the consequent; it is the main clause that is the antecedent in time.

Looking back on that from the present, I think we can say: I would not have gone through with this if the outcome would have been / had been going to be / were going to be scars. ['were going to be' is more likely than 'had been going to be', because we tend to choose past progressive forms instead of past perfect progressive forms if at all possible]

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