Not & Nor or Or

Question

I assume that "They were neither scientists nor detectives" is correct. But is it also correct to write "They were not scientists nor detectives?" Or should it be "They were not scientists or detectives?"
Thanks a lot.
Tim

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I assume that "They were neither scientists nor detectives" is correct. But is it also correct to write "They were not scientists nor detectives?" Or should it be "They were not scientists or detectives?"[/nq]
The connectors "nether X nor Y" are common and
idiomatic. Connectors "not X nor Y" and "not X or Y" break no rule but are not idiomatic.

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Usenet · Answer

Tim Grant:
[nq:2]I assume that "They were neither scientists nor detectives" is ... Or should it be "They were not scientists or detectives?"[/nq]
Don Phillipson:
[nq:1]The connectors "nether X nor Y" are common and idiomatic. Connectors "not X nor Y" and "not X or Y" break no rule but are not idiomatic.[/nq]
Right, right, wrong. "They were not scientists or detectives" is perfectly normal. However, the connotation is slightly different. This wording groups "scientists or detectives" into a single unit, and thus suggests that for purposes of this context, the two should be viewed as people who are similar (presumably because they both use logical reasoning in their work).
"Neither scientists nor detectives" is neutral in this respect. You might use it as an alternative to the above, but you might also use it if not being a scientist was relevant for one reason, and not being a detective was relevant for a different reason. ("I am neither a loony liberal nor a rabid conservative.")

"They were not scientists, nor detectives", with a comma, is also possible, although I think some people would not say it. Sometimes "either" is added to the end; I think it's more natural that way myself. This one suggests that the speaker didn't think of detectives at first, or wants to emphasize that detectives are a possibility by giving the impression that it's not what you'd first think of.

Mark Brader > "And so it went. Tens of thousands of messages, Toronto > hundreds of points of view. It was not called the (Email Removed) > Net of a Million Lies for nothing." Vernor Vinge

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Not & Nor or Or

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