Noncount noun

Question

Hi,When it comes to noncount noun with an adjective, is it okay to have an article? It was virulence vs It was a great virulence. (the article 'a' is okay, I suppose, if it comes before adjective).2) Are 'ought to' and 'would' used as 'future in the past' here? In his view, people were just labor pool that ought to be exploited ('ought to' instead of 'ought to have been' because it refers to future from the past). He wondered whether the leaders would do well to end corruption. (same as before, 'would' instead of 'would have').3) is 'following which' used to connect clauses in this manner? He got the mail, following which he left town.4) Of all the bad things I could do, you had to accuse me of petty theft. (is this right? Or, must could be followed by 'have' as in 'you have to accuse...')Thanks.

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

When it comes to noncount noun with an adjective, is it okay to have an article? -- Often-- not always-- and not with your example, which is a bad one.

2) Are 'ought to' and 'would' used as 'future in the past' here?-- 'Ought to be' is the non-past form ('ought to have been' is the past). 'Would' seems the past of 'will'.

3) is 'following which' used to connect clauses in this manner? He got the mail, following which he left town.- Yes, but quite stilted in your example.

4) Of all the bad things I could have done, you had to accuse me of petty theft.
Of all the bad things I could do, you have to accuse me of petty theft.

Avangi · Answer

When you say a [great] virulence, "virulence" is countable.

2. beats me.

3. Your sentence works, but it seems a bit strange. I'd be inclined to save it for something a little more exciting than getting the mail.

4. I think either one is okay. Or you could also use "could have done . . . . had to accuse etc."

"Things I could do" / "Things I could have done" - neither one describes what you actually did, so the tense seems immaterial. Of course what you're accused of is logically in the past.
The conversation is in the present, but the accusation could be past or recent past.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you, Mister M.

Mister MicawberWhen it comes to noncount noun with an adjective, is it okay to have an article? -- Often-- not always-- and not with your example, which is a bad one.

But is an article okay in the case of virulence? Not in this example, perhaps, but generally speaking...

Mister Micawber2) Are 'ought to' and 'would' used as 'future in the past' here?-- 'Ought to be' is the non-past form ('ought to have been' is the past). 'Would' seems the past of 'will'.

What I mean is: will 'ought to be' work in past tense even though it is a non-past form?

Avangi · Answer

AnonymousBut is an article okay in the case of virulence? Not in this example, perhaps, but generally speaking...

In my opinion, "virulence" may be countable or uncountable.

Avangi · Answer

Sorry, my error. According to Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary (online), "virulence" is uncountable only; so the indefinite article cannot be allowed.

I must have been thinking of "pestilence." [C & U]

Avangi · Answer

Well, here I am hedging again.

Such virulence had not been seen in years.

The disease spread with a virulence which had not been seen in years. (I think this is okay.)

Anonymous · Answer

AvangiQuote
Well, here I am hedging again.
Such virulence had not been seen in years.
The disease spread with a virulence which had not been seen in years. (I think this is okay.)

Thanks, Avangi. It is confusing, to say the least, especially the second example. How can there be an article if it is noncount?

Mister Micawber · Answer

What I mean is: will 'ought to be' work in past tense even though it is a non-past form?

If it is future in the past, yes.

Avangi · Answer

AnonymousWhen it comes to noncount noun with an adjective, is it okay to have an article? It was virulence vs It was a great virulence. (the article 'a' is okay, I suppose, if it comes before adjective).

Hi, Anon. I guess this is old news.
If I had had the luxury of reading MrM's post before I jumped into this, I probably would have opted out.
I had thought I was comfortable with all things countable and uncountable.
Then I didn't spot the fact that you were asking four unrelated questions, and "past in the future" is not in my bag of tricks. (Sorry, future in the past.)

MrM allowed that the indefinite article "often" appears with an uncountable noun, but I'm not sure what weight he gave to the adjective, as in "a great virulence."

Then you came back with this:

It is confusing, to say the least, especially the second example. How can there be an article if it is noncount?
(This in reply to my example: The disease spread with a virulence which had not been seen in years.)
We never did get down to the role of the adjective. I had never thought about it, and was assuming it made no difference. So I originally disallowed the "a."
But I now realize we frequently use it in titles, such as "A Fine Madness," where "madness" is uncountable only.
Perhaps you know something I don't. Have you been taught that an adjective before the noncount allows the "a"?
My feeling is that the adjective makes no difference. I now stand behind my "disease" example as being natural. Still, I'll have to do some more thinking about the use of the indefinite article with noncounts!

- A.

Ivanhr · Answer

AvangiMy feeling is that the adjective makes no difference. I now stand behind my "disease" example as being natural. Still, I'll have to do some more thinking about the use of the indefinite article with noncounts! - A.

I think your disease example falls in the same category as "a silence that speaks volumes" and similar. But, still, you wouldn't say "2 silences that speak volumes", which, to me, is a clear indication that the use of "a" doesn't make the noun countable. I've seen many examples of both "absolute silence" and "an absolute silence" with no difference in meaning whatsoever except, perhaps, the latter being more emphatic.

As far as I know, there's no absolute authority with regard to uncountable nouns being used with an "a".

Noncount noun

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