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Laborious Posted 13 years ago
Grammar

Need your help with -ing forms

Hi dear members of the forum, I am currently studying verbals, for example; "Gerunds" and "Present participles". I've also asked questions on this topic on the forum, and have received many helpful and informative replies form native speakers such as Alphecca stars, fivejedjon, and especially from CalifJim.
But I think using different terms for the same (-ing) word is still confusing me somehow.

Please take a look at these examples;

- Building the Taj Mahal took many years.

- The building of the Taj Mahal took many years.

- The building was empty / vacant.

=Let's take the first example first. In my first example sentence, "Building" is a gerund. It's internally a verb (taking 'Taj Mahal' as a direct object) and externally a noun. Right, teachers?

But how about its usage in the other sentences? As per CJ's reply here http://www.EnglishForward.com/English/Default/bzhmvd/post.htm, it should be a verbal noun in my second example and a deverbal noun/pure noun in my last example.

=In my second example, the word building is a verbal noun. It behaves as a noun both internally and externally. (Is this the distinction between a gerund and a verbal noun (if there's any distinction between them)?

I am finding it difficult to understand why -- according to some books or references -- a gerund (for instance, 'building' in my first example) comes in the category of verbal nouns if these are two different things.

= And In my last example, we could call the -ing word either a deverbal noun or a pure noun. This is the exceptional case in which we could call words like "building", "ceiling" etc. either deverbal nouns or pure nouns.

Thank you.
  

Top answer

I am afraid that you will not get a definitive answer. Writers on this subject use the terms in different ways. I think that nearly every writer would agree that the word in your third example is a noun.

— Fivejedjon

  • I am afraid that you will not get a definitive answer.
  • Writers on this subject use the terms in different ways.
  • I think that nearly every writer would agree that the word in your third example is a noun.
  • I don't know of many who would think of it a a deverbal noun.
  • 'Ceiling' may be etymologically a deverbal noun but, as the verb from which it is derived ( ceil/ciel ) has long disappeared form the language, this is of interests only to scholars.
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31 Answers
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I am afraid that you will not get a definitive answer. Writers on this subject use the terms in different ways.

I think that nearly every writer would agree that the word in your third example is a noun. I don't know of many who would think of it a a deverbal noun.

'Ceiling' may be etymologically a deverbal noun but, as the verb from which it is derived (ceil/ciel)
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Laborious=Let's take the first example first. In my first example sentence, "Building" is a gerund. It's internally a verb (taking 'Taj Mahal' as a direct object) and externally a noun. Right, teachers?
Wrong: it’s not a noun at all; it is entirely a verb, just as built is in I built the Taj Mahal. In
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Aspara GusWrong: it’s not a noun at all; it is entirely a verb, just as built is in I built the Taj Mahal. In Building the Taj Mahal took many years, it is not a matter of the word building itself having a function like that of a noun, but of building being head of an expression whose function (subject) is like that of an expression headed by a noun, i.e., of an NP. The f
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fivejedjonThis is not 'wrong'.
Of course it is, and also thoroughly misleading. You can only confuse a learner by telling them building in that first sentence is a noun, especially when it has a direct object. Not to mention it can take as dependent an adverb but not an adjective or a determiner.
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Aspara GusOf course it is, and also thoroughly misleading. You can only confuse a learner by telling them building in that first sentence is a noun,
OK, I wouldn't tell them it was a noun, but I would tell them it was a gerund, and that a gerund acts partly like a noun. That is one of the features of a gerund.

It may have a direct object (a property u
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fivejedjonbut it also functions as the subject of a verb (a property normally associated with a noun/pronoun)..
Not quite, 5jj. The subject is building the Taj Mahal, not just building. And telling a learner the subject is building is likely to give them the idea that it’s a noun. It’s not; it’s a verb, through and through.
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Aspara Gus The subject is building the Taj Mahal, not just building.
Not my best example.

How about "Swimming exhausts me"? Do you claim that "Swimming" is a verb 'through and through'.
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fivejedjonHow about "Swimming exhausts me"?
That’s ambiguous, strictly speaking. Swimming could be either a noun or a verb there, i.e., either an NP or a clause. In the noun interpretation it can be modified by an adjective (Regular swimming exhausts me) and in the verb interpretation by an adverb (Swimming regularly exhausts me).
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OK.

Now, in the verb interpretation, would you say that 'swimming' is:

a) a gerund?
b) a verb through and through?

In the noun interpretation, Would you say that 'swimming' is:
a) a gerund?
b) a noun through and through?
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fivejedjonNow, in the verb interpretation, would you say that 'swimming' is:
a) a gerund?
b) a verb through and through?
b
fivejedjonIn the noun interpretation, Would you say that 'swimming' is:
a) a gerund?
b) a noun through and through?
b

I have no use for the term “gerund”.
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